| October 11 |  |
Editor says, what if the November Criminals had been betrayed? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the October 2012 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1937, on this day Adolf Hitler, a forty-eight year old disabled veteran of the 16th Bavarian Reserve Regiment was placed under arrest by political officers of the Munich Soviet.
The Plot Against GermanyHis reactionary piece of subversive artwork Dolchstoßlegende (a Wagnerian image of Hagen murdering his enemy Siegfried with a spear, hence "The Stab in the Back") was deemed a hateful, inciteful expression of Prussian militarism and therefore an offence to Communist Party doctrine. Because Herr Hitler, and indeed a considerable number of his fellow veterans, believed that the Kaiserreich had been betrayed by civilians on the home front, the so-called November Criminals.
But of course the imprisonment of Herr Hitler was part of a larger crackdown across Germany with lower ranking Stalinist forces attempting to seize power from Chancellor Ernst Thälmann. This second turn of the revolutionary wheel was of course being engineered by the Soviet Union, with November Criminals themselves being slowly forced out by the Comitern.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
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Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Chancellor Ernst Thalmann Source: Wikipedia Labels: Adolf Hitler, Nazi, Communist, Germany, Munich. Editor says, in this article we pay homage to Phillip Roth's most excellent novel The Plot Against America. Also, this Chancellor Ernst Thälmann timeline is a variation of Chris Oakley's thread Comrade Hitler: The Rise and Fall of an Infamous Marxist Icon and also a reversal of Robbie Taylor's Happy Artist Hitler concept.
~ A Communist Germany would have been quite a bit more dangerous than Russia ever was. And Stalin said it, so it must be true.
~ That Cold War could have turned hot fast. Russia/Germany/Yugoslavia/Italy/Japan/China/etc against Britain/France/Norway/Sweden/Finland/USA/Greece/etc -- ouch.
~ Would the Fascists have been the ones to try to sit out the war and sweep in to pick up the pieces as Stalin wanted to do before Hitler sucker-punched him? It'd be interesting to see Mussolini as the "Stalin" figure of this TL.
January 15
Editor says, what if Gustav Streseman had lived to stop Hitler's Rise to Power (but with disasterous consequences)? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the November 2012 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1933, the Nazi Party put in a desperately weak performance at the Lippe-Detmold state election due almost entirely to the active opposition of Gustav Streseman.
The Plot Against Germany 3Prior to his retirement on health grounds in 1929 [1], he was widely recognized as the Weimar Republic's Greatest Statesman. And he had promised to use his retirement [2] in order to prevent the rise of Adolf Hitler who he had identified as Germany's most dangerous man.
Sure enough as he had anticipated the result at Lippe-Detmold was an unmitigated electoral disaster for Hitler whose Nazi Party had been rapidly overtaken in national popularity by the Communist Party. He had hoped that a particularly strong local showing might encourage President Hindenburg to offer him the Chancellorship. But despite determined attempts to coerce the vote he had been discredited by Streseman's strong voice of reasoned authority. Instead, von Papen stayed in office until Hindenburg's death eighteen months later. This extension of Chancellorship required the signing of an emergency decree by the President which lapsed with his death. And of course the failure of the right to coalesce around a single strong authority figure was the primary reason of the election of Chancellor Ernst Thälmann. The secondary cause was the Soviet Forces threatening to invade Eastern Germany. And the third reason, was the fracture in the Nazi Party itself To be continued in Part 3.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
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Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Chancellor Ernst Thalmann Source: Wikipedia Labels: Adolf Hitler, Nazi, Communist, Germany, Munich. Editor says, in this article we build upon an idea from Jeff Provine and also diverge from Chris Oakley's thread Comrade Hitler: The Rise and Fall of an Infamous Marxist Icon. [1] In our timeline, he died of as stroke aged fifty-one just a week before the Wall Street Crash. [2] According to his own statements in 1929.
~ I'm not sure about this. In our timeline, Hitler didn't let a little thing like the democratic process stop him, did he?
~ Hitler NEEDED the Democratic Process to get into office. It was then that he showed his true colors and set up a one-party rule.
~ But as the economy got worse, wouldn't Hitler's prospects have gotten better?
~ How does von Papen stay in office? By emergency decree What coalition? Airbrushed out by this retro-edit, by emergency decree
~ The Nazis always did have a split between "nationalist" and "socialist" Nazis---in this TL, it apparently came to the surface.
October 17
Editor says, what if Gustav Streseman had lived to stop Hitler's Rise to Power (but with disasterous consequences)? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the November 2012 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1933, the Nazi Party finally imploded nine months after Gustav Streseman destroyed their credibility at the disastrous State election result in Lippe-Detmold. continues from Part 3.
The Plot Against Germany 4"Club Foot" Joey Goebbels led a stage walkout of the entire left wing in the SA and also the Nazi Trade Unions into a newly formed Socialist German Workers' Party. It remained unclear whether Adolf Hitler would lead the rump or create new, ultra right-wing National German Workers' Party.
Of course the party re-organization was a matter of little immediate relevance because Chancellor von Papen was being retained in office not by the will of the voters but by an Emergency Presidential Decree. However, the ageing President Hindenburg was growing so weak that he was no longer able to even lift his military baton.
When Hindenburg finally passed away a year later, von Papen's mandate disappeared and he once again had to return to democratic processes to secure a mandate. However reluctant he might have been to work with the extremist National German Workers' Party his hand was forced because Ernst Thalmänn's Communist Party had surged passed him in the polls again and if necessary were prepared to sign an electoral pact with Goebbels and his Socialist German Workers' Party. But of course the most pressing threat was the Soviet Forces which were threatening to invade Eastern Germany. Communist rule in Germany appeared certain, the only question was whether the country would be governed from puppets in Red Star Berlin, or directly from Moscow. To be continued
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© Alternate Historian, 2004-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Chancellor Ernst Thalmann Source: Wikipedia Labels: Adolf Hitler, Nazi, Communist, Germany, Munich. Editor says, in this article we build upon ideas from Scott Palter and Eric Oppen and also diverge from Chris Oakley's thread Comrade Hitler: The Rise and Fall of an Infamous Marxist Icon. [1] In our timeline, he died of as stroke aged fifty-one just a week before the Wall Street Crash. [2] According to his own statements in 1929.
~ Scary....
~ Having Communism rise in Germany would have freaked the Western Allies right out. Don't know if they'd have invaded, but they'd have thought about it.
~ There is one factor that needs to be taken into account as a delta.
The money being supplied to Hitler from Wall Street - amazing set of names now - and Britain via the bank of England.
If the Soviets move forward he will get even more money.
~ Or Prescott Bush, Herbert Walker and their Wall Street cartel could be stopped dead in their tracks if the American government declared and ENFORCED a strict, total non-intercourse embargo against the Second (Communist) World. Who were the Brits who were feeding Hitler at this time?
~ I would think that all the German factions, Nazi and otherwise, would have joined forces against a Soviet invasion threat.
~ Would an invasion of Germany (through Poland, perhaps?) be enough to spark a WWII?
March 23
Editor says, what if Gustav Streseman had lived to stop Hitler's Rise to Power (but with disasterous consequences)? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the November 2012 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1937, on this day in Republican Spain the former head of the defunct National German Workers' Party Adolf Hitler was killed in action while serving in the Freikorps "Ludendorff" Division at the Battle of Guadalajara continues from Part 4.
The Plot Against Germany 5His erstwhile colleague the former Commander of the Sturmabteilung, Ernst Röhm was also involved in the fighting in the University quarters - but on the other side, backing the Communists by serving in the German Spartikist Division.
Both men had become persona non grata when Chancellor Ernst Thalmänn took office after the death of President Hindeburg. The size of the Communist Party landslide majority even dispensed with the need for a coalition pact with the Socialist German Workers' Party. Consequently, its leader, "Club Foot" Joey Goebbels quit politics and subsequently became a Red Star Radio Berlin reporter. And as a result of entering that front-line role, he became increasingly aware of the Plot Against Germany. To be continued
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© Alternate Historian, 2004-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Chancellor Ernst Thalmann Source: Wikipedia Labels: Adolf Hitler, Nazi, Communist, Germany, Munich. Editor says, in this article we build upon ideas from Scott Palter and Eric Oppen and also diverge from Chris Oakley's thread Comrade Hitler: The Rise and Fall of an Infamous Marxist Icon. [1] In our timeline, he died of as stroke aged fifty-one just a week before the Wall Street Crash. [2] According to his own statements in 1929.
~ Scary stuff...
~ And, a few psychics appeared out of nowhere for his funeral, just to make sure!?
~ Adolph's entire life is a string of strange coincidences. Remember that he initially joins the Nazi party as a paid agent of army intelligence in Munich.
~ That would be one plausible way for 'Dolf to go. He apparently was completely personally fearless, and had managed to get through four years of front-line WWI service without a scratch. Keeping that sort of thing up, sooner or later there WOULD be a bullet...either with his name on it, or inscribed "Tomb it may concern."
~ A fitting end.
November 20
Editor says, what if the Nazi Party had discovered that Adolf Hitler was an undercover intelligence agent? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the November 2012 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1923, on this day in Munich, Anton Drexler the President of the German Workers' Party (DAP) was formally charged with the murder of Lance Corporal Adolf Hitler (pictured).
The Plot Against Germany 6 Hitler punks at the FeldharenhalleFirst reports had indicated that some embittered Nazis had executed the veteran for cowardice after he had punked at the Feldharenhalle, the attempted coup of November 9th known as the "Beer Hall Putsch". But investigations soon revealed that he was an army infiltrator, appointed Verbindungsmann (intelligence agent) of an Aufklärungskommando (reconnaissance commando) of the Reichswehr, to influence other soldiers and to infiltrate the DAP. The exposure was of course a tremendous shock to Drexler whose leadership had been deeply marginalized by Hitler. He suspected that Hitler had been trying to destroy the party from within. Whereas the police suspected that Drexler had used Hitler's exposure simply as a means of restoring his position in the party.
While Drexler set about the task of rebuilding the DAP in the wake of the Feldharenhalle, Hitler became a little known foot note in the early history of the party. A failed fine arts painter, a war hero and noted denizen of the Munich demimonde it was also rumoured that he briefly served with the forces of the Bavarian Socialist Republic. Unfortunately, he would not live to see Germany turn red at the ballot box, instead Drexler would be given the fruitless task of trying to stop the inexorable rise of Ernst Thalmänn to the Chancellorship of Germany. An article from the asynchronous Chancellor Ernst Thalmänn thread.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
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Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Chancellor Ernst Thalmann Source: Wikipedia Labels: Anton Drexler, Adolf Hitler, Nazi, Germany, Munich. Editor says, in reality by 1921, Hitler was rapidly becoming the undisputed leader of the Party. Drexler was thereafter moved to the purely symbolic position of honorary president, and left the Party in 1923. Please note that we have re-purposed significant amounts of content from Wikipedia based upon a suggestion from Scott Palter.
~ IIRC most of the Nazis didn't look so good at the Beer Hall Putsch.
~ It didn't seem that way with other previous perspectives, but Hitler's rise to power really did have some random sides to it. What if The Man Who Was B. Traven had eventually taken over instead? Maybe he would never have written Treasure of the Sierra Madre, but how different Germany could have been?
~ Without an insane leader germany could have won the war.
~ But Kirk, perhaps a sane leader could have avoided the world war in the first place.
October 23
Editor says, what if the man who was B. Traven had taken over the Nazi Party? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the November 2012 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1924, on this day former actor and journalist Ret Marut [the Man Known as B. Traven] succeeded Anton Drexler as the President of the German Workers' Party (DAP).
The Plot Against Germany 7 The Man Known as B. TravenHe had first become politically engaged in 1917 when he started to publish the periodical Der Ziegelbrenner (The Brick Burner) with a clearly anarchistic profile. Two years later the Bavarian Soviet Republic (BSR) was proclaimed in Munich. He was appointed director of the press division and also a member of the propaganda committee.
During this crazy period he had become acquainted with a fellow Bohemian Lance Corporal Adolf Hitler (pictured) who had briefly served with the forces of the BSR. Hitler subsequently introduced Marut into the DAP, although at that stage, no one was aware that he was actually a military infiltrator bent on wrecking the Nazi Party from the inside. An article from the asynchronous Chancellor Ernst Thalmänn thread.
Entry posted by
Mike McIlvain
© Mike McIlvain, 2012-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Chancellor Ernst Thalmann Source: Wikipedia Labels: Anton Drexler, Adolf Hitler, Nazi, Germany, Ret Marut. Editor says, in reality the identity of the man known as B. Traven is disputed. Please note that we have re-purposed significant amounts of content from Wikipedia based upon a suggestion from Mike McIlvain.
~ Germany could have had a good writer instead of a bad painter running the show. Have to wonder if it might have been any different?
~ He probably could have done without Goebbels, as Marut could write his own speeches, etc.
October 29
Editor says, what if Gustav Streseman had lived to stop Hitler's Rise to Power (but with disasterous consequences)? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the November 2012 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1879, on this day German nobleman, General Staff officer and right-wing politician Franz von Papen was born into a wealthy and noble Catholic famil in North Rhine-Westphalia.
The Plot Against Germany 8 Birth of Franz Von PapenElected Chancellor of Germany in 1932, he belonged to the group of close advisers to President Paul von Hindenburg in the late Weimar Republic. And for the final two crazy years of his leadership, he had no choice but to rule the country by Emergency Presidential Decree. Of course this suspension of democratic processes was forced upon him by the actions of one of his predecessors, Gustav Streseman. His intervention in the Lippe-Detmold state election fatally underminined the Nazi Party, preventing the rise of a right-wing coalition Government.
But when von Hindenburg finally passed away in August 1934, his time was up. von Papen was then forced to call fresh elections in which nationalist parties were comprehensively beaten by the Communist Party of Germany. Ernst Thälmann then took office as Chancellor in the city shortly to be known as "Red Star Berlin". Although he declared an end to the State of Emergency, the internal state of the country was becoming rapidly overshadowed by the build-up of Soviet Forces threatening to invade Eastern Germany. Germany was close to gaining a new stability but of course the price was loss of sovereignty to the Kremlin. An article from the asynchronous Chancellor Ernst Thalmänn thread.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
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Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Chancellor Ernst Thalmann Source: Wikipedia Labels: Franz Von Papen, Adolf Hitler, Nazi, Germany, Chancellor. Editor says, in reality Papen and his allies were quickly marginalized by Hitler and he left the government after the Night of the Long Knives, during which some of his confidants were killed by the Nazis. Please note that we have re-purposed significant amounts of content from Wikipedia.
~ Would that it were.
~ How quickly Adolph marginalized them is one of the less well told stories [at least among Anglophone historians]. In theory Papen and the old guard held all the caes. They had most of the ministries, the Army, the bureaucracy, industry and Hindenberg. In practice they simply failed to cope. They allowed Hitler to rule because he did so and they never summoned the will to push back [note - the one time they did, with Rhoem and the SA - it was Hitler who backed down and purged the radicals].
~ True, Scott...and when von Stauffenberg came along, it was much too late.
~ So what happened to Poland? Was it absorbed (resorbed?) by the USSR?
April 16
Editor says, what if Gustav Streseman had lived to stop Hitler's Rise to Power (but with disasterous consequences)? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the April 2013 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1886, on this day future Communist Chancellor of the German Republic Ernst Thälmann was born in the city of Hamburg.
Part 9 of the The Plot Against Germany thread.
The Plot Against Germany 9 Birth of Chancellor ThälmannA Social Democratic Party member from 1903, between 1904 and 1913 he worked as a stoker on a freighter. On the day of the German Revolution, 9 November 1918, he wrote in his diary on the Western Front, "..did a bunk from the Front with 4 comrades at 2 o'clock".
In October 1925 Thälmann became Chairman of the German Communist Part (KPD) and later that year was a candidate for the German Presidency. But he did not manage to reach high elected office until anti-Communist forces fell into acrimonious division. Because Gustav Steseman's intervention in the Lippe-Detmold vote scuppered the Nazi's bid for power and their extremist party broke up soon afterwards. After that popular opinion swung to the left and Von Papen was forced to rule by decree until Hindenburg's death, when Thälmann swept the right power from power - at the ballot box. Of course, at this desperate stage matters were already at a knife edge, with Soviet Forces threatening to invade Eastern Germany. But this time, doing a bunk was not really an option.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
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Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Chancellor Ernst Thalmann Source: Wikipedia Labels: Ernst Thälmann, Nazi, Communist, Germany, Munich. ~ Well, when Churchill was asked why he had allied with Stalin, he said, "If Hitler invaded Hell, I would say a good word for the Devil in the House of Commons." That about sums it up for me: Anything replacing Hitler would be a Good Thing...with the possible exception of Ludendorf, who hated both Jews AND Christians.
~ I think Ludendorff hated everybody...
~ True, Chris...That guy was an equal-opportunity Nazi.
~ Germany and Russia aligned?Disaster!
~ Don't know enough about Thalmann to really comment well. I take it in this TL the Weimar republic didn't freeze like a deer in headlights after the 1929 Crash?
~ Would Stalin hold on to power without the threat of destruction binding Russians behind him?
October 13
Editor says, what if the Bolsheviks had failed in Russia and taken the Revolution to Germany? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the October 2012 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1944, in Czarist St. Petersburg, Red Star Radio Berlin reporter "Club Foot" Joey Goebbels interviewed film director Adolf Hitler.
The Plot Against Germany Part 2For sure his dystopian reactionary movie "
Therefore with some reluctance he agreed to attend the premiére and was presented to the movie cast including co-stars Ronald Reagan and Ingrid Bergman. He also met Joseph Stalin a government friend of Hitler's who he subsequently discovered was a high official in the revived
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© Alternate Historian, 2004-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Chancellor Ernst Thalmann Source: Wikipedia Labels: Adolf Hitler, Nazi, Communist, Germany, Munich. Editor says, in this article we pay homage to Phillip Roth's most excellent novel The Plot Against America, Norman Spinrad's "Iron Dream" developing an original idea proposed by Scott Palter. This Chancellor Ernst Thälmann timeline is a variation of Chris Oakley's thread Comrade Hitler: The Rise and Fall of an Infamous Marxist Icon.
~ Joseph Goebbels a gossip columnist...LOL.
~ Was Reagan even in movies in '44? Yes, forgettable classics like Knute Rockne, All American (1940), Kings Row (1942)..
~ I'd like to see Hitler's version of "The Mortal Storm"; I can imagine how HE'D direct that one.
~ Yes, John, and that's not even mentioning his version of The Diary of Anne Frank...where he and his followers rush in at the last minute to rescue her from the anti-semites and anti-communists who have forced her to hide. Once again, the mind BOGGLES!
~ Wow!!! Even actors playing the actors would be quite a sight in this flick. And, the Communists were battling the Nazis for control there, too.
~ Adolph always saw himself as a frustrated artist. Now imagine him as a refugee in St. Petersburg, one of several hundred thousand Freikorps veterans who had failed to save Germany from Bolshevism and been offered asylum by the Social Revolutionary government of Czarist Russia. St. Petersburg would be an international city - a cross between Weimar Berlin, Hollywood and postWW2 Paris.
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© Today in Alternate History, 2013-. All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
