| October 15 |  |
Editor says, what if Harold Godwinson had marched to Hastings, dispatching the Normans first before heading North to fight the Norwegians at Stamford Bridge? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s).
In 1066, on this day the Anglo-Saxon Advisory Council known as the Witenagemot proclaimed that the new King of England would be a fifteen year old youth, Edgar the Ætheling, noble son of the royal house of Cerdic of Wessex.
Noble Son by Ed & Jackie SpeelDespite his blood primacy as the late Edward the Confessor's nephew, under normal circumstances the commitment of these powerful members of the English elite would be highly questionable at best. Because when Edward had died just eight months before, the Witenagemot had overlooked Edgar, instead selecting the powerful nobleman, Harold Godwinson.
Admittedly Harold was the man best placed to defend the country against the competing foreign claimants, an undeniable fact that was later proven during his short reign by his glorious victory over Duke of Normandy, William the Bastard and also King Harald III Hardrada of Norway.
After crushing the Normans at Hastings, Harold had force marched his English Army to Stamford Bridge where they had defeated the Norwegians led by King Harald III and also his own brother, Tostig Godwinson. Yet at the moment of triumph, Harold was killed by an arrow in the eye. And so by October, England had been secured from foreign invasion, the other claimants to the thrown were all dead, and it mattered not at all if the King was still too young to be an effective military leader. And his coronation of the re-united Kingdom the following month would bring to a climax the most incredible succession.
He was born in Hungary, where his father Edward the Exile, son of King Edmund II Ironside, had spent most of his life, having fled to safety abroad after the conquest of England by the Danish king Cnut in 1016. And in 1057 the childless King of England, Edmund Ironside's half-brother Edward the Confessor, who had only recently become aware that his nephew was still alive, summoned Edward back to England with his family to take up his place at court as heir to the throne. The returning exile died in uncertain circumstances shortly after his arrival in England. Edgar, still a small child, was left as the only surviving male member of the royal dynasty apart from the king. However, the latter made no recorded effort to entrench his grand-nephew's position as heir to a throne which was being eyed by a range of powerful potential contenders including England's leading aristocrats and foreign rulers.
Entry posted by
Jackie Speel
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Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Alternate Nations Source: Wikipedia Labels: Harold, 1066, England, Anglo-Saxon, Edgar. Editor says, Source article - Jackie Speel writes: In our timeline last King of Saxon England, claimed the throne on the death of Edward the Confessor, defeated his own brother, Tostig Godwinson and Harald Hardrade, King of Norway at the Battle of Stamford Bridge, and then was killed in the Battle of Hastings, against William Duke of Normandy who became William I of England.
Alternatives:
Harold II goes for Duke William first, and the latter is killed or routed (with consequent impacts on Franco-Norman relationships): he is then killed in the battle in the North.
If Tostig alone survived, he would probably succeed to the throne.
If Harald survived he would have united the two realms (and possibly divided them up again much as William I in OTL divided Normandy and England between his sons).
The battles would occur at different locations to OTL.
Harold alone survives both battles. His position would be secure for the immediate future.
In both Harold II and Tostig on the throne timelines, Edgar the &Aelig;theling, a more direct heir to the throne, but a youth in 1066, would probably have staged an attempt on the throne (much as he was involved in rebellion in OTL).
All four of Harold, William, Tostig and Hardrada die variously: Edgar (the) Aetheling succeeds to the throne.
~ Interesting. It would make a great novel. I had thought of the implications if Harold confronted William first. His would have been a larger, rested army.
~ If Edgar had won at Hastings, this discussion would be occurring in an "English" none of us would recognize. The largely Germanic English of the e;leventh century was profoundly transformed ny the infusion of Norman French; the words surviving from pre-Norman English tend to be of the "earthy" sort.
~ Not so sure our English would be AS different as many think. Yes, it would lack one particular (and important) infusion of Latin-French VOCABULARY. But many changes, such as the grammatical shifts away from Germanic forms, appear to have already been well underway, had even occurred in many parts of England. It seems that the "Old English" we read in the 11th century in the FORMAL records (including histories) is something already archaic for them, and different from THEIR spoken language. When written English 're-emerged' during the Hundred Years War it was not beholden to these court customs and was free to represent something closer to the SPOKEN form of the day... and probably far closer than we tend to think to the spoken language of Harold's day.
(For one interesting take on all this, check out ch 1-2 of *Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue* by John McWhorter [2008]. He argues that the shifts away from Germanic grammar had already largely happened and had nothing to do with the influence of Norman French, but are due to other influences, esp. native Celtic speakers.)]
~ JRR Tolkien would consider this the best of all possible worlds. England would be culturally closer to Germany and Scandinavia in a lot of ways than France. And with William the Bastard gone, Normandy would start looking like the home of the Kilkenny cats in shortish order, methinks...
Comment from Peter Hebert on Facebook: Peter Hebert Harold was slow to respond to the Norman invasion, because the communication system was poor. There was no battle drum announcing an impending invasion of chain mail clad sons of Vikings on the longboats that had sailed the channel. As a result he and his men galloped from wooded thicket to wooded thicket wielding their swords into the brush and ... vainly demanded, "Where is that presumptuous contender to my throne?!" The sound of clashing metal, shields, swords, and the cries of men when pierced by arrows soon filled the land. Heads were swiftly removed by the sharp edge of the sword and paraded about on pikes as the blood continued to drip from within the skulls down the poles. Arrows flew, men fell. The battle axe clubbed many valiant ones to a pulp. William took the crown after Harold took a fatal arrow to the eye that certainly penetrated deep into the gray brain tissue upon which understandably yelled, "Oh shit! You poked me eye out." These were not the actions of barbarians lusting after blood or cowards shrinking from duty. These were the men of valor who changed the course of history.
Comment from Cathy Swanson on Facebook: Its one of those situations where I wonder what England would have become wth Harold as king or Edgar the Aetheling. Also wonder what would the wold be like if the Roman Empire would never have fallen. Or if Attila had succeeded in conquering the whole of it.
Comment from Peter Hebert on Facebook: Peter Hebert Had the Normans NOT invaded England in 1099, the Jews would not have arrived to later be expelled from England in 1290. They came with William as special subjects and were later accused of clipping coins (debasing the currency), engaging in usury, and foreclosing on properties. And, the word MORTGAGE that came about in 13th century France after the... See More Jews came back from England might have come down to us in another linguistic form. We would not have seen the 100 Years War (1337 - 1453) as a result of the Norman rulers seeking control of France with England as command central. Joan of Arc (1412 - 1431) would not have had visions to later be branded a heretic in her desire for France for the French. But, that was not to be BECAUSE the Normans were Vikings to the core. It was in the their genetic makeup and blood to conquer. Without the Vikings, Led Zeppelin would have had no reason to write the song Immigrant Song. BTW, my family name was among those who sailed with William, but I cannot establish lineage any further back than 1522 to Johannes Hebert of Paris.
Comment from Tom Hickie on Facebook: would not have mattered he could have taken an arrow in the eye either way,a better question is what if harold hadrada had stayed put in constantinople. The norman victory was a turning point for the whole world and there is not one person alive today whose life is not impacted by billy the conqueror
Comment from Japlee Kenny on Facebook: Hm, He could be like that of Alexander the Great!
© Today in Alternate History, 2013-. All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
