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Editor says, what if Richard III had been murdered by the Little Princes? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the February 2013 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1485, the usurper Richard III was killed by his nephew, Edward V, the rightful King of England with an assist from his younger brother Richard of Shrewsbury, Duke of York.
Restoration of King Edward VFortunately, the teenage Princes had managed to escape their unlawful incarceration at the Tower of London. The restored monarch took charge on the eve of the Battle of Bosworth Field narrowly avoiding a second usurpation by Henry Tudor.
For the sake of the troops morale, Richard was permitted to die with honour on the field of battle. But he refused, and in the course of a brief struggle, was killed by his nephew.
The regicide was covered up for five hundred years. But on 4 February 2013 an excavation found a skeleton that was, beyond reasonable doubt, that of Richard III, based on a combination of radiocarbon dating, comparison with contemporary reports of Richard's appearance, and a comparison of his mitochondrial DNA with two descendants of Richard's sister. Also found was the arrow head that killed him.
Entry posted by
Jackie Speel
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Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Politicians Source: Wikipedia Labels: Richard III, Plantagenet, Little Princes, Princes in the Tower, Premature Death. Editor says, the initial misreport of an arrow head in his corpse created a rumour that he had been murdered.
~ Would Tudor have stood down and taken his men with him?
~ Regicide is generally very looked down upon by regents, but times had been crazy in England for generations. If Edward V could normalize things, England might've been better off OR go into another period of madness with more intensive religious wars ala France.
~ The reconstruction showed that he was seriously good looking (much better than Lawrence Olivier in the movie)...but that he also had scoliosis, as the legend had it. I have always thought that legends are based on something...like the discovery of Troy.
~ With what's been going on this week, you picked a perfect time to introduce this TL.
~ And just HOW would a couple of kids have taken down a battle-hardened, war-veteran monarch in the middle of an army? If Edward of Westminster had managed to get loose, he'd have been grabbed the minute he showed himself.
~ And now I hear that Queen Elizabeth has refused to allow him burial in Westminister Abbey. And THIS from the latest descendant of the House of Hanover, best known for usurping the Stuarts' crown and commiting genocide against their Scottish followers. I just hope the Ricardians can launch a resounding protest.
Editor says, what if the Princes in the Tower had survived? muses Robbie Taylor. Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the May 2012 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1485, the destruction of King Richard III at Bosworth Field leaves Henry Tudor with the largest army in England.
Young Prince Edward found alive in the TowerWhen he reaches London to take the crown for himself, he finds that his distant cousins, Edward and Richard (alive), are in fact still alive in the Tower of London. Since their "deaths" had been a rationale behind his own invasion, he would have had them killed, but his soldiers spread the news too quickly; he was forced to crown Edward instead of himself, and pledged his allegiance to the young king. Recommendation: visit Robbie Taylor's Amazon Author Page.
Entry posted by Alternate Historian Robbie Taylor
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Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Politicians Source: Wikipedia Labels: Bosworth Field, Richard III, House of York, House of Lancaster, Henry Tudor. ~ The entire Yorkist branch of the Plantagenets would have been glad to not see Henrys VII and VIII take the crown, simply because those two wiped out their cousins with all the glee of serial killers in our timeline.
~ And of course, if Henry VIII never gets to be king, England remains Catholic, seriously changing the political dynamic of the Reformation and perhaps resulting in its failure.
~ This would change English history in ways we can't begin to imagine. At the same time, unless the Woodville/Grey clan was kept firmly in line, they'd promptly start lining up at the trough again, and that would bring us right back to the latter days of Edward IV. A lot of Richard III's support came from nobles who thought the Woodville/Greys had become latter-day Despensers and Piers Gavestons.
Editor says, what if Lincoln had been assassinated twelve months earlier? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the September 2012 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1862, on this day Abraham Lincoln wrote a letter in response to an editorial by Horace Greeley of the New York Tribune which had urged the complete abolition of slavery.
An Official DutyMaking a clear distinction between personal opinion and official duty Lincoln placed the emphasis on saving the Union. Therefore it was a complete shock when he published the Emancipation Proclamation only weeks later. Cynics guessed that the ink was already dry on the document when Lincoln wrote his letter to the Tribune, and he was simply waiting for an opportune moment (a Union military victory) to justify such a complete reversal of government policy.
But Lincoln never had the chance to reveal the truth of the matter because two years later, the actor and matinee idol John Wilkes Booth shot him dead. Following the bloodbath of the spring, this further horror destroyed any remaining appetite to continue the war, and threw the administration into complete disarray. However President Hamlin managed to find out a way out: a truce that hardened into a peace settlement, and a "rump Dixie" which emerged based on Confederate-occupied Southern territory. The Union retained the border states plus recovered territories that had seceded, namely Tennessee, Kentucky, Missouri, Maryland, West Virginia, Atlantic and Gulf coasts, half of Louisiana, Mississippi Valley and of course half of Virginia.
Unlike the assassinated President, Booth did have a brief opportunity to set down a testimony which made a grim mockery of both Greeley and Lincoln's visions of the future (he blamed Lincoln for abolishing slavery rather than making an overtly pro-Confederacy statement). The Union had not been saved, and worse still, "Free blacks" were classified as citizens of the reunited Dixie unionist states but not of the US itself. In effect the Emancipation Proclamation had only taken partial effect in the Union-occupied territories, and the real consequence was the prevention of a mass migration of African-Americans to the Northern Cities. Because as much as white Northerners hated slavery, they had absolutely no intention of accepting the principle of racial equality. Whereas in the South, by the turn of the century slavery had morphed into a form of peonage/caste system due to the joint pressure from London and the dangers of runaways to Union territory. Of course in time, economic equality would begin to develop, and today, we can only speculate as to what might have happened if Lincoln had lived to introduce constitutional amendments, it might even have been a "bitter legacy" of northern ghettos.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
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Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Politicians Source: Wikipedia Labels: Abraham Lincoln, Slavery, Presidency, Horace Greeley, Emancipation Proclamation. Editor says, in developing this article we taken an original idea from Eric Oppen and consulted with Scott Palter and Jared Myers, also we have repurposed content from Wikipedia.
~ I don't think that _any_ rump CSA would have been allowed...particularly if they were blamed for the first assassination of a POTUS. Re last point I have slightly changed the story to make it clearer that _this_ Booth was pro-slavery rather than pro-Confederacy
~ It doesn't matter whether he was pro-slavery or pro-Rebellion, the North would have been furious. Count on a Radical Republican president in 1865 and a truly revolutionary Reconstruction.
~ Interesting.However,was hamlin not a mad dog Anti-Souther?
~ Note that this is a change from my version which had the assassination and compromise peace in 1864 not 1862. The twin Overland campaigns [Richmond and Atlanta] took the heart out of BOTH sides. North held on till victory but could not have lasted another full year in all likelihood. Hamlin [Lincoln's VP] was a nonentity. He could not have politically held together the North after the twin bloodbaths and without the fall of Atlanta [it was this in ATL that was instrumental in Lincoln winning relection]. Er the letter was in 1862 but then it says .. But Lincoln never had the chance to reveal the truth of the matter because two years later, .. so the settlement is set in 1864 as you suggested
~ I agree completely with Eric and Stan: The North would have been even more determined to crush the Confederacy. As it was, Lincoln's assassination led directly to the Reconstruction. And one minor point: Booth was hardly an "out of work actor," he was a matinee idol Thanks - changed. Ed, which is the reason why he was allowed to wander around backstage on his way to kill the president.
~ The "dishonesty" of Lincoln is not in fact the case.
One reason for him doing sow as to head off British Intervention by the notorious Palmerston and his associates,whowere only waiting for a clear cut Confederate victory to do so.
In Britain the Prince Cosort, the arch opponent of th,was now dead and the queen in mourning.
They really, really, really intended to do it.
The proclamation kicked it into touch as the middle class supporters of Palmerston's policy revolted and in Lancashire the ingrate cotton operatives marched and rioted under the slogan "No War for Slavery!"
It was the United States which was the first country tobe subjected to a (Planned) Humanitarian Intervention and Lincoln the first leader to be subjected to a demonisation in the agressor country.
~ I'm inclined to agree that in the case of an 1864 Lincoln assassnation the North would likely have been galvanized to smash the South--especially since Hannibal Hamlin, whether or not he actually was a "mad dog anti-Souther," had strong lies to the Radical Republicans. Coming to the presidency after the assassination of Lincoln by a pro-Southerner, he'd have been unlikely to permit the survival of a rump Confederacy but would have pressed for military victory and, quite likely (unlike Lincoln) the execution of Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee and many other prominent Confederates for treason.
~ " a form of peonage/caste system", ghettos in the North... sounds pretty similar to OTL's Jim Crow tennant farming and segregation. The more things change...
Editor says, what if the Dorian invasion had failed? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the August 2012 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1100 BC, on this day the Dorian invasion of Greece was repulsed, and their vengeful King Hyllus killed in a cataclysmic battle fought at the gates of Mycenae.
Mycenaean repulse Dorian InvasionThe one-time inhabitants of Southern Greece known as the Heraclids had been forced into exile, but had regrouped and then returned in huge numbers to destroy Mycenaean Civilization. Their powerful army that swept down from the Peloponnese Mountains and threatened such a nemesis only to be crushed at the last.
Writing five hundred years later, Thucydides recorded that "Eighty years after Troy the Dorians and the sons of Herakles sought1 to make themselves masters of the Peloponnese. It was with difficulty and over a long period that peace returned".
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
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Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Generals Source: Wikipedia Labels: Dorian, King Hyllus, Heraclids, Greece, Mycenae. Editor says, in reality the Mycenaean Civilization was smashed and the Greek diaspora forced to flee east across the Mediterranean into Asia Minor. [1] one word insert into the written history. In authoring this post, we have repurposed content from Wikipedia.
~ I don't know how much the Mycenaeans influenced later Greek civilization, but the changes would be visible.
~ Mycenaean civilization wasn't "smashed" -- it fell apart due to volcanic cataclysm, namely, Thera, and environmental factors. Remember, there was no practical difference between the civilizations of Mycenae and and Crete.
~ I wonder if there is a parallel here to World War II. It was won by the allies, led by Great Britain, but left them exhausted. For Mycenae, we can read Great Britain. I hasten to add that I do not mean for a minute to compare the Trojans to the Germans...if anything, the Argives were more like the German invaders. And we must make an exception for America, which was safe across the sea. I am merely suggesting that winning a war might leave a country open to later defeat.
~ I have always been especially interested in the Trojan War, where the Argives were led by Agamemnon as King of Mycenae. I even wrote a romance novel on the subject, called "Warrior's Captive: I Briseis," where I show her as an enthusiastically willing collaborator, more than a helpless slave. You can read more about it by searching under my name at www.extasybooks.com
~ We've got a major shift in architecture at the very least.
Editor says, what if Michael Collins had taken the gun out of Irish Politics? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s).
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In 1922, on this day at a place called Béal na mBláth ("the Mouth of the Flowers") in his home territory of west Cork, Michael Collins secretly met with political rival Éamon de Valera to agree a peace formula that would bring an end to the Irish Civil War.
Happy Endings Part 8
The Mouth of the FlowersThe two Irish leaders had found themselves on the opposing side of the Anglo-Irish Treaty that had partitioned the island by creating a twenty-six county free state in the South. The core of their historic agreement was a joint commitment to use exclusively peaceful means to work towards the creation of a thirty-two country Republic. But in a larger sense, it was a bold move forward for the political situation that had to begin with a refusal to allow the British Government to continue to shape events in Ireland.
Always a man to lead from the front, the "Big Fellow" had made his own personal decision to set off in a different direction. Because shortly afterwards, he resigned his post as Commander-in-Chief of the National Army, entered private life and married sweatheart Kitty Kiernan. After a political career that spanned four decades, de Valera became the Patron of the Michael Collins Foundation, declaring that "It is my considered opinion that in the fullness of time history will record the greatness of Collins and it will be recorded at my expense".
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
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Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Happy Endings Source: Wikipedia Labels: Michael Collins, Éamon de Valera, Irish Republican Army, Ireland, Republic. Editor says, in reality Collins was shot dead in an ambush. No one has ever been officially charged with the murder of "The Big Fellow". In authoring this post we have repurposed content from Wikipedia and "A Pocket History of Irish Rebels" by Morgan Llywelyn (2001).
~ The British had their chance to shoot de Valera, along with the other leaders of the Easter Week uprising, but they spared him because he had been born in America, and they did not want to arouse American outrage.
~ Irish politics without decades of violence? I could live with that.
~ Dev may have been spared due to his mental health/ The British were aware of the blowback, from the executions after 1916. Also, the British scheme may have just have been to execute just the signers of the proclamation. They spared other people outside of Dublin.
As to Collins, walking away. Only if Dev orders, the die hards to stand down. If they do, that spares Ireland a year of war, and some but not all bitterness. Collins was keeping the National army on a tight leash, without him, things got worse. Collins walking away, is interesting. Dev almost did the same thing after losing the civil war.
It goes down, to the assement of the man. If he had wanted a quiet life, he could have been a rich new yorker. ( I have an AH about this somewhere) I agree with Peter hart, collins went to London, because he wanted to make a peace, not to sit in the back ground.
Comment from Brandon Przepiorski on Facebook: What Eamon had gone to the british for the peace tready and got shot instead of MC Good call sir. What interests me more actually is what if MC had refused to sign the Treaty (in his diary Winston Churchill said "Michael Collins rose up looking as if he was going to shoot someone, preferably himself. In all my life, I have never seen so much passion and suffering in restraint"). I have a feeling the British would have killed him if he would have signed he, he was the real leader of the IRA Eamon was always in jail or out of country, Mick was the only reason the British even decided to sign a tready he was a master at gorilla warfare I have absolutely no doubt you're right about that sir. I think you're key point is that the Treaty would never have happened at all without Collins? Without a doubt, the Brits had the upperhand until Eamon was arrested and then left for the US, and Collins took over
~ Would Eamon de Valera have had things so all his own way in this TL, or would Michael Collins' influence have made Ireland less of a backwater?
Editor says, what if the Big Fellow had survived the Irish Civil War? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the September 2011 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1940, seeking to reverse Eire's government policy of entering the war on the side of Great Britain in order to win full independence for a united Ireland Republican gun men assassinated Michael Collins in Belfast on this day.
Watch the Youtube Clip of "'You're seven minutes late" 
Seven Minutes that Changed Ireland
By Ed and Scott PalterIn return for a United Ireland and massive US aid during and after the war, a limited form of participation was proposed based upon the the so-called "Canadian compromise". To wit, that the Irish would not be conscripted for land service but could be available for navy/convoy duty.
However the core issue was that Collins had been advocating special protections and rights for the Protestants in the nine counties of Ulster.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
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Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Generals Source: Wikipedia Labels: Michael Collins, Ireland, Eire, World War 1, Britain. Editor says, in this post we imagine that the Big Fellow survived the Irish Civil War but was murdered for much the same reason his willingness to compromise with the British Government to achieve his ultimate goal of full independence for the whole island of Ireland.
~ If Colins had lived on-interesting thought.Would the legend still exist had he not died a "young hero"?
~ With Collins around, would de Valera have been as important?
~ Eire-implies the 1937 consitution.
Flies in the face, of Irish history, 1919-1920. To answer, Erics point, suppose Dev drops dead, after the treaty debate. There is probably still a civil war of strife. Too many gunmen. Dev's party are probably a natural constuiency. So presume, they come into power, arround 1930-1935. US does not really has what Ireland whats, which is debt reduction, the treaty ports, and another go at NI. What you are actually advocating, is massvive transfer, to the UK. As the US pays of Irelands debts, to the UK. That works in theory, until someone says that the English stole the money anyway. You are trying to get Ireland to enter WW2, without giving them a victory in the economic war
Navy convoy duty, is irrelevant. Ireland has no ships, Ireland has no airforce. You are basically running the risk, of killing hundreds of thousands of Dubliners, for what reward? Better, to ignore it and let them fight it out
~ It'd be a very different legend, probably one of less heroism as he continued to make progress slowly rather than with violent blows.
~ Michael seemed to realize one thing a lot of people missed: if Ireland sided with England in the war, yes the Germans would be mad, but what could they really do? Bomb Ireland? Not when there were all those lovely english ports and cities and military targets between Germany and Ireland for the merry boys of the Luftwaffe to dump their bombs on. Torpedo irish ships? They were already doing that. Jumping in with both feet would not only get the North back for Ireland, but give the allies an incentive to build port facilities in ireland, billet troops there (who had lots of paychecks to spend) and modernize the Irish military, particularly the navy and air force. The men who killed Collins were fools, not simply for killing Collins, but for being incapable of seeing beyond their grudges and vengeance.
~ Tim McFadden is absolutely right. Couldn't have said it better. Irish neutrality OTL was deliberate, unnecessary after 1943, and at times, nasty.
Editor says, what if the Paris military governor Major General Dietrich von Chotitz followed Hitler's orders and destroyed the city? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s).
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In 1944, on this day Adolf Hitler decreed that if Germany was forced out of Paris the city and all it's landmarks should be left a smoldering ruin.
Paris burns bright redThe Führer's order was relayed by Chief of Staff Admiral Alfred Jodl to Dietrich von Choltitz (pictured) who had been promoted to the rank of General der Infanterie and then appointed military governor of Paris just three weeks earlier.
And his instructions were explicit, "The city must not fall into the enemy's hand except lying in complete debris".To avoid any possibility of confusion Hitler also phoned him in a rage, screaming, "Brennt Paris?" ("Is Paris burning?"). In effect, Von Choltitz was required to organize a rapid disengagement of German Forces whilst simultaneously dealing with a complete uprising of the city's inhabitants.
Meanwhile U.S. General Dwight D. Eisenhower, the head of the Allied invasion, had refused to divert troops to liberate Paris. Resistance forces loyal to De Gaulle failed to overcome red influence during and after Liberation, and were unable to prevent communists taking control of the city and then of France. Ironically, the destruction of the cultural fabric of the city removed any symbolic vestiges of the past, ushering in the new and frightening communist future that Adolf Hitler had predicted.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© Alternate Historian, 2006-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Politicians Source: Wikipedia Labels: Paris, Nazi, Germany, Occupied France, Allies. ~ I really can't see the Communists holding onto Paris, let alone France, for more than a few days. Not only will de Gaulle's forces fight them, but be rest assured that the British, & above all the Amercians, will crush them as well.
~ Most likely, the Communists would have been smashed by the U.S./ as soon as Japan fell and America was no longer distracted by the Pacific war. France would, in short, have been handled as Greece was in the early postwar period--only by direct armed intervention rather than the CIA.
The result might well have been a new hard-line republic under a military junta, as in Greece (and elsewhere), perhaps not returning to democracy for decades.
~ I've always wanted to know _how_ Hitler expected von Choltitz to burn Paris? The Turd Reich was starved for fuel as it was---did he have that much petroleum products to spare?
~ 1. Germans could have dynamited some key buildings but the garrison lacked the manpower to control the streets long enough for serious arson, especially once the Paris police and the remaining Vichy cadres went over to DeGaulle.
2. The gendarmes and remaining Vichyites had superiority in both manpower and firepower so the idea of the Communists taking over is absurd. More so as DeGaulle sent the French 2nd Armored Division into the city in defiance of Ike's orders. Big Charlie's emissaries essentially made deal with the cops and militia by which most past sins were forgiven in return for backing his regime. all this scenario does is get more people with drity hands fast pardons as DeGaulle would need more firepower.
3. let us presume the reds take the city. Ike had gone around Paris to avoid getting stuck with the logistical problem of feeding the several million people involved. The Commies either geek/submit to DeGaulle who disarms them or Ike doesn't feed the city and they starve [i.e. geek later]. This is Warsaw in 1944 in reverse - the guy with the big army calls the shots whatever the rebels say.
~ If communists gained control for even a few minutes, I'd imagine the USSR would sneak in all the resources they could muster. Perhaps a troubled red France might have been enough fire to warm up the Cold War to a hot one?
Editor says, what if Richard III triumphed at the Battle of Bosworth Field? muses Jeff Provine on This Day in Alternate History Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s).
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In 1485, the Wars of the Roses had caused battles for thirty years as the House of York and the House of Lancaster made attempts whenever possible to seize the throne of England. The House of York had gained dominant control, though upheavals continued, such as the revolt led by the Duke of Buckingham in an effort to put forth Henry Tudor as king.
Richard III Affirms Legitimacy at Bosworth Field Richard III had put down the rebellion, but the Tudors had not been utterly defeated. They would have their final confrontation at Bosworth Field near Ambion Hill in Leicestershire.
A new story by Jeff ProvineRichard, who was known for his political deviousness, was not overwhelmingly accepted. His nephews, one of whom was the former king Edward V, had disappeared shortly after Richard had taken the crown. Rumors stated that they had been killed and their bodies hidden in the Tower of London, but few were willing to challenge Richard directly. Henry Tudor had his own claim to the throne and came out of exile in France with an army, arriving in Wales on August 1. He gathered strength from allies while Richard mustered his own troops and raced to meet him.
Richard's 10,000 men were divided under the command of himself, the Duke of Norfolk, and the Earl of Northumberland. Henry opposed him with only 5,000 men. Waiting on the wings with 6,000 men were the Stanleys, brothers Thomas and William, who were forced into loyalty under Richard by the imprisonment and threatened execution of Thomas' eldest son, George. As the battle became thick, Richard found himself betrayed by the hesitating Northumberland and decided to lead the charge against Henry himself. In the gamble, Richard and his knights became separated from the main force, and the Tudors pressed upon them.
William Stanley decided that the time was right to strike. He drove for Richard, signaling his army to save the king and serve as reinforcements. With the second charge, the battle was won for Richard and the House of York. Henry Tudor was slain in battle. Tradition tells that Richard, looking over the body of Henry, mumbled, "Treason, treason, treason, treason, treason".
Having been satisfied with the loyalty of the Stanleys, Richard released Thomas' son and rewarded William with the lands seized from Northumberland as punishment. Richard would go on to rule until 1507, marrying Anne of Lancaster and pacifying his populace to achieve a return to peace for England. He was well known as a beneficiary to the church (though rumors said his gifts were out of guilt for evil deeds past and present). He would be succeeded by his son Richard IV, and the Lancaster line would continue.
Marginal stability would reign in the sixteenth century until the Protestant Reformation took hold of Europe. Under Richard V, England would maintain its connection with Rome despite the efforts of reformist Thomas Cromwell, but the Scots in the north began to adopt Calvinism. While the Thirty Years' War raged in the Germanies, Scotland and England were both well known for sending mercenaries to their respective sides. Eventually, the war would spill onto Britain with the Bishops' War would begin in 1633. Much of the North of England was devastated, and recurring drafts caused uprisings among the English, finally ending with the Civil War led by Oliver Cromwell for the Protestants.
After the wars when Protestant England gave up its short-lived republic for rule by William of Orange, interrupted peace would continue between it and Scotland. Both would participate on various sides in wars, continually sparring for domination in colonies both in the Old and New World. Finally, with the Seven Years' War in 1763, Scotland and England would define a boundary across the St. Lawrence River with Scotland in Canada and England in New England to the south. When the American Revolution broke out the next decade, the Scots were quick to help the rebels establish their independence. England would return the favor in the Canadian Revolution in 1864-67.
When World War I broke out in 1914, great bloodshed would follow in the trenches of Northumberland, but Scotland would find itself on the losing end with the collapse of Germany in 1918. The following economic depression cost England its longtime possession of Ireland, but Scotland would join Italy, Germany, and other European states in fascist revolutions. World War II would be even bloodier for Scotland, but occupation by English, Americans, and French would prove beneficial as the nation rebuilt into a productive member of the European Union today. England, meanwhile, continues as a stable state with distant memories of Bosworth Field as retold in Shakespeare's stirring history, Richard III.
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Jeff Provine
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Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Jeff Provine Blog Source: Jeff Provine’s Blog Labels: Bosworth Field, Richard III, House of York, House of Lancaster, Henry Tudor. Editor says, in reality, the Stanleys, seeing Richard in trouble, charged their knights against him, risking the life of Thomas' son. Richard would be killed in battle, though remembered as fighting valiantly. Having helped win the day for the Tudors, the Stanleys would be richly rewarded. The Tudor line, however, would prove unstable as Henry VIII broke from Rome, his son Edward VI would reign only six years, and Elizabeth would die without an heir, prompting England and Scotland to share the monarch James I (VI) and forever tie the two British nations together.
~ It would be interesting if the Stanleys' interference in the battle had been due to a bungled order...someone misheard the command and helped the wrong side. That said, if Dante ever had been able to update the Inferno, he could have put the Stanley family all down in the ninth circle, where traitors are kept on ice.
What sort of history plays would Shakespeare have written in a Yorkist England, I wonder? I do think that the English Reformation, when/if it came, would have been less violent than Henry VIII---by the fourteenth century, the kings already did appoint bishops and Archbishops; the Pope merely got to rubber-stamp things.
~ It would be a great coincidence if anything like World War I started in 1914, just as in our history, given centuries of prior divergence. A world war, yes, but perhaps at a different time and between different adversaries.
~ It does not seem likely that Scotland, given the lack of population and resources, will ever be a genuine rival to England on the international stage in it's own right. A somewhat friendly neutral and/or ally akin to Scandinavia yes, but without something like France backing it up the Scottish will be less and less of a threat as England industrializes. On a side note, what are the odds of Scots remaining a literary language and avoiding being subsumed by English.
~ I like the comparison of this TL's Scotland akin to Scandinavia. That seems right. My thoughts on Scottish growth were, though, that over the course of the late eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, England would miss out on the manpower and inventive power of the Scottish people, thus being held back a bit. England would definitely hold the upper hand, but I'm sure France would happily back the Scots as they did in the various insurrections (Bonnie Prince Charlie comes to mind). Seems to me that Scots would hold its place as a literary language. Some great poetry in this TL, and most of Shakespeare might hold the same. Perhaps more Richards would be a source for good material, though.
In 1898, armed hostilities in the Spanish-American War come to an end. Ignominiously defeated, Spain is forced to relinquish control of Cuba, Puerto Rico, Guam and the Philippine Islands to the United States. An installment from the 49th State thread.
The 49th State by Eric LippsDebate over what to do with America's new possessions is fierce. In the case of Cuba in particular, there had been considerable sentiment in favor of independence prior to the outbreak of war, when lurid articles regarding the real and alleged brutalities of the Spanish colonial regime appeared regularly in the newspapers of media baron William Randolph Hearst. Once Cuba passed into U.S. hands, however, ardor for freeing it cooled considerably. Businessmen liked the cheap sugar and other products Cuba provided, while naval officers saw it as an ideal site for bases.
The colonialist faction would ultimately triumph. In formal peace traty, signed in Paris on December 10, 1898, no mention is made of independence for Cuba. The following year, by act of Congress, the possessions taken from Spain will be declared U.S. territories.
On January 1, 1959, Cuba will become the 49th U.S. state. That same year, Hawaii, also annexed in 1898, will become the 50th; Alaska will formally become the 51st state the following year, and in 1965, the Philippines will become the 52nd. In 1970, Puerto Rico will at last become the 53rd U.S. state. Of the territories taken from Spain in 1898, only Guam will not have become a state by the turn of the century, chiefly due to its small population.
In 1964, the youthful and charismatic Lieut. Gov. Fidel Castro of Cuba is elected to the U.S. Senate. Castro, a former law student who entered politics in the 1950s, will be an impassioned voice for America's growing Spanish-speaking populace, and will be one of the sponsors of the Senate resolution formally granting statehood to the Philippines.
In the Senate, Castro will start out as a solidly moderate Democrat who will initially support the war in Vietnam, but will grow disillusioned, finally announcing his outright opposition in 1969. His change of heart will anger many conservatives in his home state, sparking a challenge from Republican Rep. Fulgencio Batista, a decorated Korean War veteran, in 1970. Sen. Castro will survive, however, and in his new incarnation as foreign-policy liberal will oppose President Charlton Heston's contra war against the left-wing government of Ernesto 'Che' Guevara in Bolivia in the 1980s.
In 2000, in a hotly-contested election, Democratic nominee Fidel Castro will narrowly defeat former Texas governor George W. Bush to win the U.S. presidency, becoming the first native Spanish-speaker to hold that office.
Entry posted by
Eric Lipps
© Eric Lipps,2007-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: 49th State Source: Wikipedia Labels: Spain, America, Spanish-American War, Fidel Casto, George W. Bush. ~ Would Fidel even have been born in this timeline? Or would he have gone into politics? He might have pursued his earlier dream of being a baseball star. Having him be at the center of the first huge steroid scandal in baseball would have been funny...particularly if he was getting his 'roids from "Doctor" Ernesto Guevara, a well-known defrocked would-be physician from Argentina, who had had to flee his home after his attempts to embalm Evita Peron's corpse failed in spectacular fashion. (The real doc who embalmed Evita wrote a _very_ creepy book about his adventures traveling with the corpse...I've a strong stomach, but his attitude bordered on necrophilia.)
~ 1. If Cuba becomes a state why does PR have to wait?
2, Expect a major Cuban revolt in less than a decade.
~ Besides hostility from Cuban nationalists whose agenda speaks for itself, One of the reasons Cuba was never considered for being taken over by the US or even statehood is its large black population. Southern Democrats flatly killed any such notion just as they blocked US Grant's plans for taking over the island of Santiago and bringing it in as a state to give blacks a safe strong political base from which to uphold their rights. Let us get real, history is often motivated by bad thoughts as well as good ones. People do the right thing for the worst of reasons just as they often do the wrong things with the best of intentions.
~ Cuban statehood would doubtless have been delayed, just as Hawaii's was, out of racial sentiments. However, that doesn't mean it would have been impossible.
As for whether Castro would have been born in such an altered timeline: it's a reasonable point, but at the very least his family would still have existed and might have eventually produced a "Fidel," even if the man given that name wasn't necessarily the same man we know, chromosomally speaking.
~ Rich and though provoking.
Comment from Ria Greeff on Facebook: I can envisage a lot of happy Cubans not to mention the peace which it would have brought to Florida Immigration Officers!
In 1951, on this day citizens of East Berlin riot against the government of East German chancellor Walter Ulbricht after Ulbricht announced that food rations would be cut in half. The riots were just the beginning of a tidal wave of civil unrest that would eventually drive Ulbricht from power in the aftermath of the Bellus-Zyra disaster. | |
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| Walter Ulbricht |
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Chris Oakley
original content has been repurposed to celebrate the author's genius © "When World's Collide" (1932), Philip Gordon Wylie and Edwin BalmerStory Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Worlds Collide Source: Wikipedia Labels: Worlds Collide, Harry Truman, India, Pakistan, Disaster.On this day in 1971, French president Georges Pompidou was killed as riots swept Paris in reaction to the news that the China virus had reached France. | French President |
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| Georges Pompidou |
Entry posted by
Chris Oakley
© Chris Oakley,2008-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Omega71 Source: Wikipedia Labels: Charlton Heston, Richard Nixon, Bioweapon, America, Cold War.| C-in-C | On this day in 1922, Micheal Sean O Coileain aka Michael John 'Mick' Collins, Commander-in-Chief of the Irish Free State Army is shot during an Anti-Treaty ambush at Beal na mBlath, County Cork, during the Irish Civil War. |
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| Michael Collins |
Variant entry posted by Todayinah Editor
original content has been repurposed to celebrate the author's genius © S. M. StirlingStory Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Beasts Source: Wikipedia Labels: Michael Collins, Ireland, Mick, Big Fellow, Assassination.~ Lyrics to "While my guitar gently Weeps" After meeting on the set of A Hard Day's Night, Pattie married George Harrison on January 21, 1966, during the heyday of his group, The Beatles. Harrison's friend Eric Clapton, first of The Yardbirds, then of Cream, also fell in love with her. Pattie went on to divorce Harrison on June 9, 1977, and later marry Clapton on March 27, 1979. She and Clapton divorced in June 1988.
Harrison and Clapton worked together on While my guitar gently Weeps, a thinly disguised reference to the tragic love triangle between Pattie Boyd and the two guitarists. The lyrics are available at at Lyrics Freak.
Stub Entry posted by Alternate Historian Robbie Taylor Play the tune
On this day in 2007, Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe was interviewed by the Alliance for Democracy's representative Peter Greste. Deep concern was raised throughout the Alliance following the death sentence impose upon five security officials of Centurion Rank. | His Excellency |
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| Robert Mugabe |
Rev Chikane, who is now a director in the president's office, has said he did not want to see the men go to prison. Vlok sought forgiveness from Rev Chikane last year by washing his feet. President Mugabe supported the actions of the new South African Government in dealing with Draka-era divisions. Justice was a pre-requisite for reconciliaton in President Mugabe's view. |
Variant entry posted by Todayinah Editor
original content has been repurposed to celebrate the author's genius © S. M. StirlingStory Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Beasts Source: BBC Labels: Draka, Apartheid, Southern Africa, Zimbabwe, South Africa.On this day in 1944, Namur was liberated by the Allies after only minimal German resistance. | |
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Entry posted by
Chris Oakley
© Chris Oakley,2008-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: France44 Source: Wikipedia Labels: World War 2, D-Day, Pas De Calais, Europe of the Dictators, Axis Powers.On this day in 1973, Castle Rock sheriff Alan Pangborn and his chief deputy, Norris Ridgewick, found the badly decomposed bodies of town councilman Danforth Keeton III and Castle Rock Public Works employee Hugh Priest in shallow
graves near the city limits. | Sheriff |
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| Alan Pangborn |
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Chris Oakley
original content has been repurposed to celebrate the author's genius © Stephen King, Salem's Lot, 1976.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Salem50 Source: Internet Movie Database Labels: Salems Lot, Maine, Murder, Stephen King, America.| Red Army General | On this day in 1941, Red Army general Andrei Vlasov was summarily court-martialled and executed after authorizing one of his divison commanders to pull out of the village of Kaluga. |
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| Andrei Vlasov |
Entry posted by
Chris Oakley
© Chris Oakley,2008-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Barbarossa41 Source: Wikipedia Labels: World War 2, Operation Barbarossa, Fascism, Europe of the Dictators, Axis Powers.In 1991, in the Soviet Union, faced with mounting resistance to their coup, the 'Emergency Committee' and its backers dispatch tanks to the Russian Parliament, where they are confronted by an angry crowd of both armed and unarmed civilians led by a number of Russian parliamentarians, including firebrand Russian President Boris Yeltsin, who will strike a memorably telegenic pose of defiance before the tanks. | Pres. Candidate |
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| Patrick Buchanan |
With the failure of its assault on the center of resistance at the Parliament building, the coup collapses as junior officers and political officials, including the leadership of the various Soviet republics, turn against the Committee. |
The President sounds as if he is shilling for the Communists. Let's not forget that the 'recognized government' he talks about is a brutal Red tyranny which has murdered millions of its own people and engaged in an orgy of terror and destruction worldwide since 1917. The restoration of the latest and glossiest tyrant to call himself the leader of the savage Soviet regime is a tragedy, not the blessing he makes it sound. The world will not be safe until this blood-soaked barbarism is banished altogether from the world.
Entry posted by
Eric Lipps
© Eric Lipps,2007-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Generals Source: Wikipedia Labels: Patrick Buchanan, Presidency, Coup, Communism, Soviet Union.I have a feeling they're led by a planewalker, but I haven't found them out yet. As soon as I do, they're going to get a stern lecture on the rights of individuals to be free from kidnapping, and then a quick disintegration ray in the face.
I came out free from the disorientation that usually accompanies leaving the mid-planes. When you go back home, there's no need for adjustment; your cells already belong there. The conjunction to my home plane from Sabala's is in Babylonia, the capital of the North American Confederation. It's also where I was born, and where my parents lived until they were abducted by the UFO's when I was fourteen. That's when I decided to go out planewalking, since the UFO's liked to come back for the rest of your family a member at a time.
Babylonia's a huge city, about twelve million people, and it sprawls around the largest port in my world, on the gulf coast of North America. If it weren't for the unfortunate UFO infestations around the city, more people would see us as the cultural center of the world. But, a little hint of danger, and the wimpy little types who like to attend opera and the theater abandon us. What are you going to do?
Some of the defectors are OK guys, though, and I know a few of them. I walked up to the house of one of them, Wilhemina Barclett. She took a human name when she defected, but doesn't have the best taste, if you get my drift. I rang her bell and waited.
'Hello?' Her voice rang out on the intercom, and then her face appeared on the little screen. 'Oh, Gabriel!' she let out a little squeal at seeing me. She's got a head that's shiny as fine china, but she's a sweet and lovely person. 'Come in, dear, come in.' The door opened for me, and I went into her drawing room, where she ran up and hugged me. 'Oh, my dear little man, it's been much too long. Have your found your sexual paradise yet?'
'I'm afraid not, Willie. The quest goes on.' She sat me down beside her on a couch, and bustled about preparing me a drink. 'I just helped a friend create his paradise, though. Did you ever meet Patrice?'
Her eyes turned from their usual deep green to the dark black almonds that signaled concentration. 'I think I have. African gentleman, somewhat disdainful of Europeans?'
'That's Patrice. We put down a rebellion of Europeans in an African-dominated world, and his search is over.'
'Oh, my.' She handed me a wine glass and sat down beside me, sucking thoughtfully at a smoke-filter. 'That must have created quite a bizarre sense of betrayal and disloyalty on your part. How did you cope?'
Willie loves pop-psychology, and she's always trying to analyze me. 'I'm OK. After all, they're not my people, right?'
'Perhaps, but they were fellow humans. You come from a democratic tradition, and have always valued free will. I would think it would create at least a few strong feelings.' Her eyes turned red with amusement, and I laughed with her.
'Willie, I thought you knew me better than that - I have no strong feelings.' I gulped down the wine she'd given me. 'I can't afford them.'
She looked at me sideways for a minute, then let it drop. She often knows when I won't answer any more questions. I have a feeling she's telepathic, but I can never catch her at it. Aliens; can't live with them, can't live without them. 'Have you heard from Ph'ssyank?'
'Not since I led him to the mid-planes. I think he's probably trapped at whatever conjunction he decided to get off at. I'm pretty sure he didn't know how to find one on his own.' I finished off the wine and handed her back the glass.
'Would you like more?'
'Please. You know you have the finest cellar on the planet.'
She went black with embarrassment, and stumbled over to her bar. I have no idea why she gets so flustered when I compliment her choice in alcohol, but it's the best way to get on her good side if you ever meet her. It's a side trip I highly recommend. Willie's a cutie.
'Where are you off to next?'
She'd given me a different wine, this time, one of her most potent, and it gave me a nice buzz. I set it down to keep myself from getting light-headed. 'I don't know. I thought I might look up some of the old crowd here, see if any of them are interested in going off to look for paradise again. Should be good for a laugh or two.'
She blew a smoke ring at me. 'There might not be too many of your associates left. The city was raided fairly heavily last week. They're still trying to get an accurate account of who's left.'
'These people are probably still around. They've avoided raids in the past.' I looked at her with concern. There were reprisals against aliens, sometimes, after the raids. 'Are you all right? Did anybody try anything?'
'I have certain defensive resources, Gabriel. I am perfectly fine.' Her eyes were red again, and I wondered what kind of private jokes were going through her mind. It's maddeningly frustrating to be so close to someone and never really know what they were thinking. 'Would you like to stay the night? I just received a new shipment of artwork from Asia that is simply delightful. The artist is an Arythiok who was raised in a small Chinese village; the blend of alien perspective with traditional Chinese subject matter is captivating.'
'I'd love to see it, of course, but can I use your phone? I'd like to call a couple of my friends, to let them know I'm in this plane.'
'Certainly. You know where I keep everything.' She stood and wandered off to her basement gallery. 'I'll be enjoying the art when you're finished.'Story Chunk 2
On this day in 1953, Chinese People's Liberation Army general Lin Bao was executed by firing squad after having been convicted by a military tribunal of complicity in the assassination of Mao Zedong. | |
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Chris Oakley
© Chris Oakley,2008-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Korea53 Source: Wikipedia Labels: Korean War, Cold War, Korea, Communism, America.Entry posted by Alternate Historian Robbie Taylor
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Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Pete Best Source: Wikipedia Labels: Pete Best, Robbie A. Taylor, Beatles, Sixties, Mersey Beat.Entry posted by Alternate Historian Robbie Taylor
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Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Mlosh Source: Robbie Taylors Blog Labels: Mlosh, 1720, Robbie A. Taylor, Warp, Alien.Entry posted by
H2O et al.
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Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: 1916 Year of Peace Source: Althistory Wikia Labels: World War 1, 1914, Belgium, Flemish, Walloon.Entry posted by
Chris Collins
© Chris Collins, 2007.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Generals Source: Wikipedia Labels: King Richard III, House of York, Battle of Bosworth Field, King Edward V, Lord Protector.Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© Today in Alternate History, 2004-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Generals Source: Wikipedia Labels: Big Fellow, Mick Collins, Taoiseach, Mícheál Seán Ó Coileáin, Irish Free State Army.August 21
Editor says, what if Jack Jouett had never made it to Charlottesville? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s).
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In 1754, on this day the British Colonel Banastre Tarleton (pictured) better known variously as "Bloody Ban", "The Butcher", "The Green Dragoon" was born in the City of Liverpool. He was the fourth of seven children born to the merchant, ship owner and slave trader, John Tarleton of Liverpool, who served as Mayor of Liverpool and had extensive trading links with Britain's American colonies. An article from the American Heroes thread
Jefferson killed in the Tragedy at CharlottesvilleIn December 1775, he sailed from Cork as a volunteer to North America where rebellion had recently broken out triggering the American Revolutionary War. Six years later he marched with Cornwallis into Virginia.
Tarleton undertook a series of small expeditions while in Virginia. Among them was the notorious raid on Charlottesville, where he captured Governor Thomas Jefferson who had been attending a meeting of the Virginia legislature. Out of a sense of British fair play, the Assembly building was burnt down and Jefferson shot by Redcoats. But of course hate begats hate and the British derived no absolutely no advantage from the brutal field execution of the enlightened genius who drafted the Declaration of Independence. And Tarleton himself was killed by American soldiers after the surrender at Yorktown.
At the suggestion of President Aaron Burr, in 1801 a monument to Jefferson was built next to a reconstruction of the Assembly building. In 1830, upon her ascension to the throne, Queen Charlotte paid a State visit to pray for the victims of the American revolution. But in a sense it was unnecessary to commemorate his sacrifice. Because in her diary that evening, Her Majesty noted that it was as if Jefferson was in the next room the whole time.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© Alternate Historian, 2004-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: American Heroes Source: Wikipedia Labels: Banastre Tarleton, Thomas Jefferson, American Revolution, Republic, Cornwallis. Editor says, in reality Cornwallis into Virginia. Tarleton undertook a series of small expeditions while in Virginia. Among them was a raid on Charlottesville, Virginia in an attempt to capture then-Governor Thomas Jefferson and disrupt the meeting of the Virginia legislature. The raid was partially foiled when Jack Jouett rode 40 miles through the night to warn Jefferson and the legislature of Tarleton's approach.
This article is based on speculation at Good Reads and also Wikipedia.
~ In the U.S., it is obviously Jouett who deserves considerably more attention than he has received. It very much would have been a seriously different world without Thomas Jefferson.
~ A different world indeed, Mike! "We hold these truths to be self-evident..." and they spread all over the Western world.
~ I'd like to learn more about Jouette...
~ I think Tarleton would have been in a lot of trouble with his superiors. IIRC they tended to see him as a dangerous loose cannon.
~ The Constitution alone would be wildly different.
Editor says, what if Bonnie Dundee had survived the Battle of Killiecrankie? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the December 2011 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1689, on this day Viscount John Graham of Claverhouse (Bonnie Dundee) led the Jacobite rebels to a second glorious victory at the the Battle of Dunkeld (Blàr Dhùn Chaillinn).
Battle of Dunkeld
Article written by Ed & Jared MyersAfter King James fled the country the English Parliament had offered the throne to William of Orange and his wife Mary (the Protestant daughter of James to whom William owed his claim to the throne).
A convention held in Edinburgh decided that the Scottish government would pledge loyalty to William, but a number of the Highland clans opposed this decision, and their leader was Bonnie Dundee.
He raised the royal standard on Dundee Law, and left for the Highlands to raise the army that would triumph over the Covenanter cause at Killiecrankie and then Dunkeld.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© Alternate Historian, 2004-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Generals Source: Wikipedia Labels: Jacobite, Bonnie Dundee, Battle of Killiecrankie, Battle of Dunkeld, Rebel. Editor says, in this post we explore a point of divergence with Jared Myers (in reality Bonnie Dundee died at the earlier victory). Extensive content has been repurposed from Wikipedia.
~ Might be enough of a war to separate Scotland, provided they begin to go for independence. Having the Stuarts on the throne really laid the groundwork for Great Britain.
~ An independent Scotland-what then?
~ Keep in mind that the Act of Union didn't take place 'til 1707, 18 years after Killiecrankie. If Claverhouse lives, the Act of Union probably never happens. Also keep in mind that the Covenanters also strenuously opposed the Act of Union along with the Jacobites, which almost created an unlikely alliance in 1707. Jacobites and Covenanters fighting side-by-side under the banner of Bonnie Dundee to keep Scottish independence in 1690? That would have been a sight to see...
~ Don't know if the Highlanders alone can pull a Jacobite victory off...there weren't that many of them and they were never, ever united. However, in this TL I do think the Act of Union is toast, and possibly the Edinburgh Gov't reconsiders acccepting William. They might go with Mary...and that would be extremely interesting, now wouldn't it?
Editor says, what if Judas Iscariot really was the brother of Jesus? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the August 2011 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1937, on this day a Secret Gospel authored by the brother of King Jesus was discovered in the Transjordan.
DogmaThe apocrypha described a prophetic warning at the outset of the Jewish War in 66 CE. The narratives then documents how the third "Bishop" (Vice Regent) Prince Judas Iscariot led a depleted, scattered community of followers out of mortal danger.
Their destination was Pella in Transjordania where they re-established a Gentile-Pauline Church. This forced relocation explained the loss of central importance of the Jerusalem Church which now moved the Christian centre of gravity to Rome.
The discovery meant that those same authorities in the Vatican were now presented with difficult questions about the historical accuracy of an archetypical traitor. Of course the rehabilitation of Judas was an explosive issue much larger than the legacy of one disciple. And Rome's Axis partner faced a direct challenge to the false Nazi assertion that worldwide Jewry was an unexpungeable evil tracing its history back to Judas' betrayal of Jesus.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© Alternate Historian, 2004-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Religion Source: Wikipedia Labels: Jesus, Judas, Rebellion, Rome, Jerusalem. Editor says, in this post we examine some ideas proposed by the British Jewish Scholar Hyam Maccoby (1924-2004) in his excellent book "Judas Iscariot and the Myth of Jewish Evil" (1992).
Wikipedia reports ~ Maccoby also wrote extensively on the phenomenon of ancient and modern Anti-Semitism. He considered the Gospel traditions blaming the Jews for the death of Jesus and especially the legend of Judas Iscariot (which he believed to be a product of the Gentile Pauline Church) as the roots of Christian antisemitism.
The photo is of Luca Lionello playing Judas in the Passion of the Christ (2004).
~ What's especially strange about the whole "Christ-murderers" myth about the Jews is that the whole POINT of Jesus's life is to be sacrificed! Judas is simply ensuring that the plan moves forward
~ I think it's a stretch to place the roots of Christian anti-Semitism at the feet of Judas' betrayal. Yes, "Christ killer" was the term used for centuries, but it was always a reason arrived at in reverse, much the same way that some fundamentalists begin at a conclusion (the Earth is 6,000 years old) and work backwards. European history from the fall of Rome to the 20th century is replete with stories of persecution of minorities or groups who were just "different"; that is, not white and Christian. I believe the persecution of Jews in Europe and elsewhere has its roots in their non-Christian identity more than the actions of one Jewish traitor in a Bible story.
~ I always thought that the Nazis' objection to Jews was that they were an indigestible lump---that they couldn't ever become Germans and were always, only loyal to their own. That said, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to hear them bringing Judas' betrayal up.
~ Nazis ought to do well enough breaking apart direct challenges to their false assertions, no matter how accurate.
~ What ultimately betrays NAZI beliefs/ignorance about Jews and Christianity (and the RCC as well, perhaps) is that Christian doctrine teaches that it was the wickedness of mankind in general that condemned Christ to death, NOT just the Jews or the Romans or any one particular ethnic group. In orthodox Christian doctrine, the term "Christ-killer" applies to all those for whom Christ died. Interesting Hitler never picked that up...
Editor says, what if Nat Turner abandoned his plan to attack and kill whites, slave owner and poor alike? muses Jeff Provine on This Day in Alternate History Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s).
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In 1831, on this day at midnight Nat Turner and his trusted followers arose and marched out of their quarters. They went from plantation to plantation further, freeing other slaves as they went.
Nat Turner Begins his Slave ExodusNat Turner, born October 2, 1800, in southern Virginia, was a bright slave who had repeatedly received visions from God command his life. When he had run away from his master at the age of 23, he returned having had a vision showing him to do so. A new story by Jeff ProvineA persuasive speaker, Nat often gave services for a black Baptist congregation, earning him the nickname "The Prophet". In 1828, he received one of his most powerful visions. He described the experience, which was written later in a book by his lawyer Thomas Gray as hearing "a loud noise in the heavens, and the Spirit instantly appeared to me and said the Serpent was loosened, and Christ had laid down the yoke he had borne for the sins of men, and that I should take it on and fight against the Serpent, for the time was fast approaching when the first should be last and the last should be first ". It struck him that he was to lead a great insurrection to bring down the machine of slavery.
A solar eclipse in February of 1831 showed him that the time for his rebellion had come. While he and his fellow conspirators had planned to liberate themselves on July 4th, illness and logistics had delayed them. On August 13, atmospheric interference (which could have been debris from the recent eruption of Mount Saint Helens) made the sun appear a rich bluish-green. Nat realized that his first interpretation of overtaking of the whites was not what he was meant to do; that was why the insurrection was unable to take place on the fourth of July. Instead, he was looking for a land of blue water and greenery to match the vision. Otherwise, the sun would have been blood red.
Seeking guidance, Nat remembered the story of Moses and his exodus to the land of milk and honey. The fight against the serpents of the desert had merely slowed down the Israelites, much like the whites had kept back the black slaves. Fashioning a rough copper snake and attaching it to a rod matching that of Moses, Nat put forth his plan to lead his people out of bondage. He chose the direction of Northwest, across the mountains and Ohio valley toward the Great Lakes, perhaps even to Canada.
At midnight on August 21, he and his trusted followers arose and marched out of their quarters. They went from plantation to plantation further, freeing other slaves as they went. For protection, the slaves carried with them knives and axes, though a few had firearms. At Nat's direction, the slaves fought back only when whites tried to stop the growing army of slaves. Several white masters were left beaten, but none were killed (some later died of injuries).
For two days, the slave revolt grew until a white militia was organized and place roadblocks in the way of the singing, marching slaves who sought their freedom. Nat halted his people and attempted to preach at the whites, though only a few words could be heard over the jeering. Someone opened fire, missing Nat, but causing panic in both crowds. The armed blacks charged, overwhelming the outnumbered whites, who dispersed after a brief struggle. Swearing revenge, the whites spread the word that the blacks had attacked so that US Army troops were called up throughout Virginia.
The slaves crossed the Shenandoah Valley into western Virginia before the Army caught up with them. Artillery, horsemen, and eight hundred infantry (many of whom had come from as far away as Norfolk, where the USS Natchez and the USS Warren were anchored) attacked the camps of the slaves, and the exodus was stopped. Dozens of slaves were killed, hundreds returned to their masters. A few, including Nat Turner, managed to evade capture in the wilderness. Most of those escaped into Ohio, but Nat turned back, realizing that even Moses had not been able to go into the holy land. Instead, he returned to call for the release of his people who had been captured.
The call was answered by immediate arrest. Nat was convicted as a murderer in a well publicized trial that approached a kangaroo court. He was hanged, flayed, beheaded, and quartered, the archaic punishment for treason, which inflamed abolitionists throughout the United States. Several small slave revolts sparked through the South, but they were quickly put down.
More effective was the writing of Nat's lawyer, Thomas Gray. His book gave the firsthand account of Nat's exodus, including descriptions of life under slavery. It spread even across the Atlantic, where it became a bestseller among the abolitionists of Britain. The intelligence of black men was proven, and, after the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833, Britain began putting diplomatic and economic pressure on the United States to do the same.
The South struggled to shake its black badge of slavery led by President Andrew Jackson and wealthy slave owners. However, the damage had been done to its reputation, and increasing pressure not to buy slave goods caused economic depression. Southerners called for relief from the Federal government, which was enabled through President Polk's signing of the Manumission Act of 1846, freeing the slaves and giving compensated value for each slave. After the Mexican-American War ended in 1848, many of these African Americans moved westward in what modern scholars call the Southern Exodus, recalling thought of Turner's Exodus.
Despite the end of slavery in the United States, racial tensions have continued even to the point of attempted secession of the New Mexico territory that caused the short American Civil War in the 1880s. Along with Native Americans, Asian Americans, and other minorities, it would be another century before leaders were able to establish equal rights under law.
Entry posted by
Jeff Provine
© Jeff Provine, 2010-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Jeff Provine Blog Source: Jeff Provine’s Blog Labels: Slavery, Nat Turner, Andrew Jackson, Civil Rights, America. Editor says, in reality, Nat Turner kept with his plan to attack and kill whites, slave owner and poor alike. Panic spread through the whites of the South, and reprisals caused the deaths of an estimated 200 blacks (56 were formally executed by the state of Virginia, plus many killed by the US Army and militias). Nat escaped until caught in a hole covered by fence posts on October 30. He was hanged, flayed, beheaded, and quartered, but the major aftermath of his rebellion was the legislation of laws prohibiting education for blacks as well as restricting practices of assembly and religion for slaves. The next thirty years of slavery would be among the worst seen in the United States.
~ Better than the real world.
~ 1. there was no US Army to call up in Virginia or indeed much of anywhere else. US Army was tiny and most of what little there was was stationed in Florida [Seminoles] or along the Western frontier in penny packet forts.
2. the whites of the south had an effective militia precisely to defeat this sort of insurrection - their great fear was of another Santo Domingo - so Virginia could have called out a fair fraction of the white men of the state. They would not have been well armed or drilled by military standards but they would all have had fire arms and some concept of how to load and fire. So the first battle is the last as the blacks are essentially blown off the field.
~ The problem with this, as with all other black rebellions in slave-holding states, was that the whites were in the majority, and had lots and lots of guns and men who knew how to use them. That said, this would have been absolutely wonderful abolitionist propaganda.
~ Re: Scott Palter: Looking back, you're right. They were Navy troops. I'll do an edit on my blog.
Editor says, what if Stephen A. Douglas had won the 1860 presidential race? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s).
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In 1858, at the first Illinois Senatorial debate held on this day at Ottawa, Abraham Lincoln declared that his opponent Stephen A. Douglas "cares not whether slavery is voted down or voted up," and that, [in the words of Henry Clay], he would "blow out the moral lights around us" and eradicate the love of liberty.
A Slip, not a FallBy the time that the seventh debate had been held at Alton on October 15th, it was clear that Lincoln had lost the argument. Not only would Douglas cruise to victory in the Senate race, he would pursue the same logical argument in his successful bid for the Presidency two years later. Yet the voters of Illinois would experience some doubt during the secession crisis. By then Lincoln had occupied the vacant seat, a lonely voice in the Senate arguing against Douglas's "Richmond Compromise".
That compromise would leave unanswered the questioned posed to Douglas by Lincoln at Ottawa, namely ~ "[because all men were created equal], how can you deprive a negro of that equality which God and the Declaration of Independence awards to him?".The path was worn and slippery. My foot slipped from under me, knocking the other out of the way, but I recovered and said to myself, "It's a slip and not a fall".
For Lincoln, self-actualisation was a very personal matter. He had suffered from deep depression for many years. The nagging doubt that he had failed to make his mark would ultimately drive him to suicide in 1864.
Nevertheless his upbeat attitude to the future of the Union was deeply philosophical. Whilst considering the "Richmond Compromise" a setback (which he blamed upon a lack of national leadership), it was in his own remarkable words, "a slip, not a fall".
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© "Lincoln's Genius" by H.W. BrandsStory Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Beasts Source: Wikipedia Labels: Stephen Douglas, Abraham Lincoln, 1860, Illinois, Civil War. Editor says, H.W. Brands explores Lincoln's development during and after losing the 1858 Senate Race, so we vary this by imagining that Douglas repeats his performance during the 1860 Presidential Race.
~ Given Dixie's suicidal politics in 1860 how does Douglas win? See
~ I think that the fallout from John Brown's raid would have spelled defeat for Douglas no matter what Lincoln had said years before. For a more interesting WI, how about one where the Democrats sink their differences and unite behind one candidate?
Comment from John Paul Canonigo on Facebook - more slave states means the Confederates can easily steamroll the Union into submission.
~ I have to agree with Scott Palter on this one...
~ Letting Dred Scott stand wouldn't have "forced slavery on the free states"--but it would have divided the states into two classes, one (the slaveholding states) whose laws must be enforced nationwide and one (the free states) whose laws need not be, at least on the question of slavery.
Douglas's election, therefore, might have postponed the Civil War but almost certainly would not have prevented it. And any postponement would have worked to the slave states' disadvantage, considering that they were lagging farther and farther behind in population and industrial development. I doubt, though, that the North would have seceded. More likely, Douglas would eventually have been fo,llowed by an anti-slavery president, causing the same reaction as did the election of Lincoln in our history.
Editor says, what if Al Gore won the 2000 election and had to implement the recommendations of his 1996 report? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s).
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In 2004, the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States closed with the issuing of two staff monographs to complement the public report from July 22. The public report including the following statement on page 344: "The Gore Commission's Report, having thoroughly canvassed available expertise in and outside of government, did not mention suicide hijackings or the use of aircraft as weapons". This harsh judgement of foresight made reference to the oversight and execution of Executive Order 13015, which established the White House Commission on Aviation Safety and Security of 1996.
Executive Order 13015Often called the Gore Commission in recognition that Gore was the chairman, that work group operated for six months, from August 1996 until February of 1997, when it issued its final report.
Gore's commission were mandated to provide to the President "a strategy designed to improve aviation safety and security ". Intended or not, the Commission had given the 2004 Presidential Election to the Republican Party.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© Today in Alternate History, 2004-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Crises Source: Free Republic Labels: Al Gore, 911, Airline Safety, Terrorism, Hijacking. Editor says, Repeated unedited from Gore's Inconvenient 9/11 Truth ~ Nobel laureate Al Gore, we are to believe, has the technical acumen to analyze complex data, assess risks, and identify the right countermeasures. He must be able to critically sift through mountains of data, distinguish between reliable and unreliable climate models, and astutely analyze volumes of esoteric scientific reports and studies to determine with something like crystal clarity what will most assuredly happen in the future. On an ongoing basis, as new data comes in.
He can also supposedly identify what specific variables we can and should manipulate now, so as to favorably change the outcome of countless diverse interactions of innumerable variables for an assured and beneficial outcome. He can recognize cumulative risks, threats emerging from the interplay of known risks. He can do this so well that he can simply brush aside any criticism of any of his conclusions as being unscientific or tainted by corruption.
How else could the world rely on his assessment of the dangers we face and the actions we must take?
His track record when asked to evaluate emerging threats from the interplay of known perils is not encouraging.
In 1951, on this day India invaded Pakistan in retaliation for Pakistani shelling of Indian villages along the Indo-Pakistani border; each country blamed the other for the annihilation of most of its major cities, not knowing that those cities had actually been destroyed by multiple impacts of fragments from the late planet Zyra. | |
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Chris Oakley
original content has been repurposed to celebrate the author's genius © "When World's Collide" (1932), Philip Gordon Wylie and Edwin BalmerStory Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Worlds Collide Source: Wikipedia Labels: Worlds Collide, Harry Truman, India, Pakistan, Disaster.On this day in 1944, American troops in France liberated Orleans. | |
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Chris Oakley
© Chris Oakley,2008-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Valkyrie Source: Wikipedia Labels: July 20th Plot, Valkyrie, Adolf Hitler, Goering, Germany.On this day in 1973, Cowboys first-string quarterback Craig Morton injured his throwing arm during a preseason team workout; the injury would sideline him for more than two months. As a result, Morton's backup Roger Staubach would be the starting QB for Dallas when the Cowboys opened their 1973 NFL season. | |
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Chris Oakley
© Chris Oakley,2008-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Ice Bowl Source: Wikipedia Labels: Dallas Cowboys, NFL, Kansas City Chiefs, America, Touchdown.On this day in 1969, serial killer Jay Sebring struck again, fatally stabbing a CHP motorcycle cop. | |
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| Jay Sebring |
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Chris Oakley
© Chris Oakley,2008-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Jay Sebring Story Source: Wikipedia Labels: Charles Manson, Police, Under Cover, America, Jay Sebring.Entry posted by Alternate Historian Robbie Taylor
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Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Chdo Democracy Source: Wikipedia Labels: Chdo_Democracy, Robbie A. Taylor, China, 4648, Emperor Dao-Ming.Entry posted by Alternate Historian Robbie Taylor
© Robbie Taylor, 2004-Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Soviet America Source: Robbie Taylors Blog Labels: Joel Rosenberg, Robbie A. Taylor, Comrade, Soviet States of America, Communism.Entry posted by Alternate Historian Robbie Taylor
© Robbie Taylor, 2004-Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Mlosh Source: Robbie Taylors Blog Labels: Mlosh, 1720, Robbie A. Taylor, Warp, Alien.Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
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Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Generals Source: Wikipedia Labels: Gebirgsj?ger , Ethon, Elbrus Mountain, Prometheus, Eagle.Entry posted by
Dan Haymond
© Dan Haymond, 2007.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Imperial Lance Source: True Fiction Press Labels: Imperial Lance, World War 2, France, Britain, Japan.The encyclical recognized the existence of witches and gave full papal approval for the Inquisition to move against witches and gave permission to do whatever necessary to get rid of them. The Catholic Encyclopedia emphasises the importance attached to the encyclical in the context of the ensuing witch hunts as 'altogether unnecessary.' Some scholars view the bull as 'unnecessarily political,' motivated by jurisdictional disputes between the local German Catholic priests and those of the Inquisition who answered more directly to the pope.The encyclical is often viewed opening the door for the bloody witchhunts that ensued for centuries. By March 1907, the authors of the Catholic Encyclopedia set out to give 'authoritative information on the entire cycle of Catholic interests, action and doctrine'. This of course meant de-emphasising the witchhunts, blaming the actions on authorised elements of the inquisition, local German Catholic Priests etc. These absences had been inadvertenly revealad in the 1922 supplement to the Encyclopedia which was also in the public domain. As of 2007 the Supplement has not been placed on-line. Kevin Knight had seen to detail as a result of his discoveries during the publishing of the 1913 edition of the Catholic Encyclopedia on the Internet.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© Today in Alternate History, 2004-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Religion Source: Wikipedia Labels: Catholic Encyclopedia, World Youth Day, Kevin Knight, New Advent, Papacy.Older Posts 
© Today in Alternate History, 2013-. All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.
