Todayinah Ed. says, US isolationalists win out. If you're interested in viewing samples of my other work why not visit Todayinah site.
| September 11 |  |
Editor says, what if Franklin D. Roosevelt had died in 1939 before he could deceive America into abandoning neutrality? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the September 2011 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1941, in a controversial speech in Des Moines, Iowa on this day the 33rd President of the United States Charles A. Lindbergh accused British and Jewish "war agitators" of seeking to force a change of the isolationist government policy laid down by the Neutrality Acts signed into law by the late Franklin D. Roosevelt.
America FirstThe America First Party had high hopes that September 11th would go down in history as the day when America refused to be terrorized into war. But despite his broad agreement with these sentiments, his Press Secretary John T. Flynn had resigned the day before, being deeply troubled by the pointed anti-semitism contained in the speech.
Ironically, another individual who had no hesitation in blaming the Jews for the World Crisis was Lindbergh's chief antagonist. Because the British Prime Minister Winston Churchill was confidently predicting that America would be dragged into the "gathering storm" - willing or not. Just in case they were not, Churchill had already formed British Security Co-ordination, sending three thousand British agents across the Atlantic to infiltrate Washington Society and reverse the US policy of isolationism.
This article is a continuation of the Inteprid thread.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© Alternate Historian, 2004-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Intrepid Source: Wikipedia Labels: Roosevelt, Lindbergh, Isolationism, Second World War, America. Editor says, in reality the events of Pearl Harbour stigmatized the Japanese as war agitators. Lindbergh called General Wood, who said of the president, "Well, he got us in [the war] through the back door. ..."
~ it took every ounce of influence FDR had to get lend lease and the peacetime draft through congress. Lend lease was pretty much what kept england and the USSR fighting past 1941. Lindbergh elected in 1940 pretty much kills both of those. Probably no oil embargo against the Japanese either, which at least delays pearl harbor for a year or two-probably. Japanese army was spoiling for a fight against the US (with absolutely no reason for confidence) and Japanese navy didn't feel safe taking out Malaysia, Singapore and the East Indies with a US-held Phillipines on their flank. Whenever war came, the US would have been even more unready than it was, and might be short of allies as well.
~ What Timothy said. However, Lindbergh's comments' alleged "anti-Semitism" does not address the question of were they true, or not?
~ Of course we were trying to get America into the war.Consider the alternative.I'd have sent aid to Britain but not Russia and not had a peacetime draft.
~ The Japanese did not particularly want to fight the USA so much as they wanted SE Asia to be all theirs and the USA presence in the Philippines made that problematic. The USA was scheduled to leave the P.I. soon after and let it develop as an 'independent' country under the same model used for Cuba, however FDR did everything he could to keep this from happening. If President Lindbergh withdraws the USA from the P.I. and lets the Japanese have the islands without a fight then they have no reason to go to war with the USA, especially if we are continuing to sell them scrap metal and petroleum.
~ The question is, how far and wide can Germany go before it self-destructs?
~ What if Roosevelt had died before he could DECEIVE America into abandoning neutrality?
Surely "persuade" would be a better term--and in then end, Pearl Harbor did that job for FDR. Or is the idea that in this timeline FDR was complicit in the the "day of infamy"?
Re Mark Taylor's remarks: if we hadn't aided Russia, very likely it would have fallen to the Nazis in 1942 or at the latest '43, leaving Hitler free to concentrate on England. And if we hadn't had a peacetime draft, we'd have had even less of an army when our turn came than we actually did. We might have ended up being forced to accept a peace with the Axis in 1945 or '46 which left Japan entrenched in mainland Asia and the South Pacific and the Nazis ruling Europe from the Channel to the Urals.
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July 10
Editor says, what if the isolationists had won out? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the July 2011 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1941, on this day the Federal Bureau of Investigation arrested the director of British Security Co-ordination William Stephenson for planting propaganda in American newspapers, radio stations & wire servers, harrassing prominent isolationists and plotting against corporations working against British interests.
Codename IntrepidThe subsequent investigation determined that the upper reaches of Washington society and government had been infiltrated. Stephenson had been dispatched by British War Leader Winston Churchill with orders to "do all that was not being done and could not be done by overt means" to reverse the isolationalist policies of President Charles A. Lindbergh.
The White House had reneged on a 1939 pledge from Franklin D. Roosevelt to King George VI that "If London was bombed, the USA would come in". Churchill's response was to order the most controversial, covert action campaign in the annals of espionage. He sent the legendary Canadian spymaster to Washington where he outmanoerved the FBI and the Statement Department for months before his exposure by the prominent American businessman and political figure Joseph P. Kennedy.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© Alternate Historian, 2004-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Intrepid Source: Wikipedia Labels: William Stephenson, British Security Co-ordination, World War 2, America, Isolation. Editor says, William Stephenson is considered to be one of the real-life inspirations for James Bond. His war-time colleague Ian Fleming himself once wrote, "James Bond is a highly romanticized version of a true spy. The real thing is William Stephenson".
~ He'd have had an easy time of it...the upper reaches of the US government were heavily pro-British, partly through cultural affinity and partly through memories of the Great War. He wouldn't have needed to set foot on US soil, either..he could have coordinated the whole thing from Canada.
~ How did Lindbergh get to be president? The only way I can see starting from our own late 1930s would have been for FDR to refuse to run for a third term and the aviator-hero to have been nominated by the Republicans, rather than running a quixotic third-party campaign.
~ So Stalin wins the Great Patriotic War and counter-invades Germany.
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December 20
Editor says, what if the isolationists had won out? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the July 2011 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1941, as thirty-fourth President Frank Lloyd Wright was sworn in the Federal Bureau of Investigation interrogated the British secret agents who had assassinated his predecessor Charles A. Lindbergh in a final, desperate attempt to reverse the US policy of isolationism.
Codename Intrepid 2That team comprising Ian Fleming, Roald Dahl, Noel Coward, David Ogilvy and Ivar Bryce had been put in place by the Canadian Spymaster William Stephenson.
Ordered by Churchill to "do all that was not being done and could not be done by overt means" he had formed British Security Co-ordination successfully infiltrating Washington Society until he was betrayed by Joseph P. Kennedy.
Britain was now facing total collapse. Whether the incoming President would also look the other way was now the question. Because Wright had a grander vision for the country, he aspired to be the greatest American architect of all time.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© Alternate Historian, 2004-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Intrepid Source: Wikipedia Labels: Lindbergh, British Security Co-ordination, World War 2, America, Isolation. Editor says, Jeff Provine suggested that Charles Lindbergh's Vice President could be Frank Lloyd Wright even though he had been prevented from joining the America Now Party for moral reasons.
~ There might have been some pretty impressive building projects.
~ Stalin and Hitler are still going to go after each other... Would that be enough to end isolationism?
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December 7
Editor says, what if Franklin D. Roosevelt had died in 1939 before he could deceive America into abandoning neutrality? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the September 2011 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1941, on this day of infamy the Imperial Japanese Navy launched a surprise attack on the major British military base in Southeast Asia devastating the Royal Navy's Far East Fleet which was moored in the Port of Singapore.
Day of Infamy based on comments by Allen W. McDonnell and Timothy McFaddenWith Hitler the master of Western Europe, Great Britain was the only European Power able to defend its imperial possesions. But in reality little was preventing the Asian nations from achieving their independence through the armed forces of the Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere.
In fact, the Phillipines had already been granted its independence by President Charles A. Lindbergh, a strategic decision which enabled the United States to withdraw from the Pacific Theatre. This isolationist decision had enraged the British Prime Minister, Winston Churchill who had not in his own words "become the King's First Minister in order to preside over the dissolution of the British Empire". Until 12/7 at least, he had confidently expected to see the British Empire "preserved for a few more generations in its strength and splendour".
Accordingly Churchill had sent three thousand British agents across the Atlantic to infiltrate Washington Society and reverse the US policy of isolationism but that slow burn strategy was as dead in the water as the sailors of the Far East Fleet. The head of British Security Co-ordination the Canadian Spymaster William Stephenson was issued with urgent orders. And a team comprising Ian Fleming, Roald Dahl, Noel Coward, David Ogilvy and Ivar Bryce was tasked with assassinating the US President. Problem was that his successor, Vice President Frank Lloyd Wright was a man of the same isolationist mindset, and therefore additional measures would also be required .. and fast.
This article is a continuation of the Inteprid thread.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© Alternate Historian, 2004-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Intrepid Source: Wikipedia Labels: Singapore, Lindbergh, Isolationism, Second World War, Pearl Harbour. Editor says, in reality Pearl Harbour was attacked and the United States was dragged into the Pacific War.
~ Would Churchill have gone this far? Also, even if the assassination succeeded, how would the Brits get away with it and not drag America into the war AGAINST Britain for the murder of the President?
~ A little too out there for me. sorry. Just can't see Winnie ordering the assasination of a US president.
~ I don't know...Churchill was certainly ruthless enough, but would have known that if the truth came out, the US would be gunning for the UK, very seriously. A US-Axis alliance would have been the end of Britain.
~ "Deceive"? Sounds like something the Birchers would say.
~ Hear, hear.
Also, FDR's death in '39 would have put his VP John N. "Cactus Jack" Garner in the White House. Garner was a conservative Texan (read "KKK") Democrat who would have beena formidable opponent for any Republican in 1940, even "Lucky Lindy" (who by that time, after the kidnapping and murder of his son, didn't seem quite so lucky).
~ Conservative Garner vs Lindbergh would set an overall platform of staying out of the war, which would definitely set the national mood. Add an assassinated president on top of that, along with the closing days of the Great Depression and FDR's stroke, and we've got an America that is reeling. If word got out about Britain being behind it, we'd have been buddies with Hitler in an instant.
~ If Garner had become President,I think he'd have lost to Willkie in 1940. Frank LLoyd Wright?
~ Assuming that there was no US support for Britain in the form of Lend Lease, or at the very least moral backing there is little chance of Britain being in a position to do anything much at all by lte 1941. I think in the absence of the clear support of FDR for Britain and the knowledge that he hated Hitler and would give some support at least morally Churchill would have sturggled to gain enough support to even become PM. Inevitably IMO the pro-peace Lord Halifax would have become PM after Chamberlain's fall and made peace with Hitler. This would oddly have helped Britain in terms of Singapore as the end of the European war would have allowed Britain to shift forces to the other obvious military zone in the east. However, I think such a peace settlement would have allowed Britain to keep her empire but probably insisted that Britain did not interfere with Japan in other territory, Hitler would have been courting Japanese support for his attack on the USSR, hoping for Japanese intervention in Siberia. Japan, having lost to the USSR in the late 30s would only have risked such a war once she had been able to secure sufficient power and resources in East Asia and Australasia. With no US interest in the region and Britain beaten Japan would have had no need to attack Singapore, simply occupying Indochina, the Dutch East Indies and (in this scenario) the Philippines. The Dutch possessions give them the oil they desperately need. They only need to take out Singapore if the British are likely to move against their operations in the Dutch East Indies.
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July 27
Editor says, what price victory? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the July 2011 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1943, Great Britain defeated Nazi Germany by dropping the atomic bomb on Hamburg but when Soviet occupation quickly followed Winston Churchill enraged President Frank Lloyd-Wright by blaming US isolationism for permitting "an iron curtain to descend across Europe".
FirestormBoth the manner of the victory and its direct consequences was the result of the periphery war that Great Britain had been forced to fight since Dunkirk. Undefeated only because of the strength of the Royal Navy and Air Force, the flipside of the victory was that the lack of a comparative land army prevented Great Britain from either re-entering the theatre or mounting an invasion after the bombing of Hamburg.
Or honouring the guarantee of Poland that had sparked the war. Most embittered of all was Lieutenant-General Wladyslaw Anders who demanded the release of the Polish Army in Exile. But Churcill had other plans for these hardened Polish veterans who would be desperately needed in the coming war with the Soviet Union.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© Alternate Historian, 2004-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Intrepid Source: Ashujo Labels: Atomic, Nuclear, Germany, Iron Curtain, Adolf Hitler. Editor says, extract from the review of "Inferno: The Devastation of Hamburg", 1943 by Keith Lowe -
Lowe devotes a full chapter to the unique and grotesque phenomenon that materialised in Hamburg on July 27, 1943, that was like nothing seen before. Technically, it was called a firestorm. On a personal level, it burnt memories in the minds of witnesses that are comparable to those evoked by any of the twentieth century's other excesses.
~ So in this TL, the UK had the scientists to build the Bomb?
~ UK vs USSR atomic WWIII seems in the cards...
~ The UK had its own parallel nuclear project, known as the Maud Commission, during World War II. What it didn't have were the resorces, including uranium, to spare to develop the bomb in a hurry.
I do find it hard to believe that a nuclear-armed UK under Churchill would have permitted Soviet occupation of all of Germany. It seems that in this timeline, thoough, Britain was fighting alone. How did isolationism trumph in the USA? (And how the *heck* did an *architect* get to be president?)
This is Intrepid Part 3, if you follow the thread
Recall Churchill had Lindbergh shot, his VP was FLW
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February 5
Editor says, what if the isolationists had won out? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the February 2013 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1980, on this day ailing Winnipeg-born engineer Sir William Stephenson was awarded the Order of Canada.
Recognition for Codename IntrepidA senior member of British intelligence, he had been appointed director of British Security Co-ordination but the Federal Bureau of Investigation had arrested him for planting propaganda in American newspapers, radio stations & wire servers, harrassing prominent isolationists and plotting against corporations working against British interests.
The subsequent investigation determined that the upper reaches of Washington society and government had been infiltrated. Stephenson had been dispatched by British War Leader Winston Churchill with orders to "do all that was not being done and could not be done by overt means" to reverse the isolationalist policies of President Charles A. Lindbergh.
The White House had reneged on a 1939 pledge from Franklin D. Roosevelt to King George VI that "If London was bombed, the USA would come in". Churchill's response was to order the most controversial, covert action campaign in the annals of espionage. He sent the legendary Canadian spymaster to Washington where he outmanoeuvred the FBI and the Statement Department for months before his exposure by the prominent American businessman and political figure Joseph P. Kennedy.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© Alternate Historian, 2004-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Intrepid Source: Wikipedia Labels: William Stephenson, British Security Co-ordination, World War 2, America, Isolation. Editor says, William Stephenson is considered to be one of the real-life inspirations for James Bond. His war-time colleague Ian Fleming himself once wrote, "James Bond is a highly romanticized version of a true spy. The real thing is William Stephenson".
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