| June 22 |  |
Editor says, what if Britain had stayed out of the Great War? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s). This story was published in the July 2012 edition of Changing the Times Magazine.
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In 1915, on this day Militia Major Michael Collins (pictured) was awarded the Victoria Cross for his gallant actions in the defeat of the Ulster Volunteers in Derry.
Irish Home Rule in 1914: Part #1"The troubles" had begun in the difficult months before Irish Home Rule began on schedule in September 1914. Even the choice of location for the bicameral Irish Parliament in Dublin was in dispute. Unionists argued that the fast-growing city of Belfast also deserved of an assembly, having seen a population expansion from 20,000 in 1800 through to a twenty-fold increase to 400,000 by the turn of the twentieth century. Few argued that Cork, on the West Coast, deserved an assembly. And many held the view that the disproportional rise of Belfast was merely a lop-sided indication of the British Government's investment in the Protestant population.
The late summer of 1914 revealed other truths about the British Government's narrow pursuit of its "national interest". Because as the continent of Europe stumbled towards conflict, the German ambassador published details of the secret staff talks which proved that the UK was committed to war regardless of what the Germans did or did not do in Belgium. Although democratic processes had not fully played out towards a consensual decision, it was generally considered probable that the Imperial Parliament would agree to declare war on Germany, and suspend Irish Home Rule for the duration of the war. But as matters transpired, Britain declared partial neutrality by blocking the English Channel as a matter of honour, a small reciprocation given that the French Fleet had already sailed to the Mediterranean on the private assurance that their coast was secured by the Royal Navy. This was a worthless compensation from "perfidious Albion"; deprived of the British Expeditionary Force, the French Army was hammered into defeat before Christmas.
Of course a British Expeditionary Force did set sail during the Autumn of 1914, but to the North of Ireland. Ever since the Curragh Mutiny the British Army had been fully aware of the reluctance of its officers to put down a "loyalist" uprising. Which was why the actions of individuals such as "the Big Man" Mick Collins were so vital to the success of devolved power in Ireland.
This article is a post from the Irish Home Rule 1914 collaborative thread.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© Alternate Historian, 2004-.Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Irish Home Rule 1914 Source: Wikipedia Labels: Ireland, Britain, Irish, Michael Collins, Big Mick. Editor says, in authoring this article we explore a central idea from Scott Palter with valuable assists from Jackie Rose. We have also repurposed content from Wikipedia.
Please click hyperlink for Google Groups Discussion comments.
~ This could have changed everything, and not just for Britain...
~ While Britannia's sons with their long-range guns sailed in through the foggy dew...
~ So Michael Collins is fighting on behalf of the English government on the side of the Irish republicans against Ulster Loyalists? Talk about the world being turned upside down, this could have been more confusing than the War of the Roses...
~ The officers would have all resigned their commissions rather than take action against the Ulster Volunteers.
Michael Collins was a member of the IRB and working in a stockbroker's office in the City at the time.
There was no way nthe Irish Volunteers were going to be allowed to fight with the British army.
There is a reason for this that bI hadn't ever realised until I read Jim Beall's Lettersime and went and checked.
Key members of the Conservative party were key Irish (NOT ULSTER) Unionists or heir ardent supporters and simply would not have toleated it.
Carson was the leader of the Ulster Unionists and and a senior Conservative,mBonar Law the Conservative leader was a violent Unionist ans was Arthur Balfour, who had been secretary for Ireland.
The numbers of Cons. and Liberals were almost equally, the Irish Nat. and Labour holding the balance.
Relly Britain needed the war to get out of Irish Home Rule and suspend the Home Rule Act,mas has been said.
I appreciate this is very highly attractive to people of an Irish background.
The publishing of the super secret Military Conventions and military agreements which weren't supposed to exist with France would have cause uproar, but you would have needed another ambassador than the violently pro-Britsh Lichnowsky. But the Liberal Imperialists - Asquith, Haldane and grey - are committed to war come what may.
It is likjely the Liberal cabinet would collapse, - in fact without the actual war crisis it almost certainly would - as it nearly did on 1st -"The Millstone 's chapters on-line referring to this.
Parliament does not need to declare war, the decision had been taken by the cabinet on the 2nd. It only needed to endorse the decision, vital for national unity.
~ What does Germany do with the defeated France? Seize many of its colonies in hopes of expanding its empire? If so, we might see an Anglo-German War anyway in disputes over Africa.
~ An Irish friend told me that IRA men played a key role in the Israeli War of Independence...since they would, after all, go anywhere at any time to fight the British. The King David Hotel bombing does seem like a typical IRA operation, complete with the warning phone call.
Even if the IRA did not inspire the Israelis, it certainly did enough for literature, thanks to its unpaid press agents like Joyce, Yeats, O'Casey, Behan and Higgins. In particular, Yeats immortalized the uprising at the Dublin General Post Office with "Easter 1916." It calls on everyone to "Come gather round me players all, come praise 1916" and ends with the unforgettable words, "They are changed, changed utterly...a terrible beauty is born."
~ No matter how much we may sympathise with this, the British Ruling Class are not going to do the decent thing to Ireland in1914.
Also they are not going to avoid war - they will go to war to prevent the Balance of Poer being changed in Europe and not over French colonies etc.
~ There is a small chance, that Ulster does something really really, stupid. Carson, flirted with making statements about inviting the Kaiser in. Suppose Carson is in a car accident, make it the weekend he met the Kaiser, by accident on the continent. Let rumor abound Suppose the Larne gun running, ends up with a clash with the Police. . Collins was both a member of the Irish volunteers, and the IRB. Most Irish revolutionaries were. Collins is not that important in the movement at this point, so one can see him drifting towards action.l However at this point the volunteers are still dominated by the Irish parlimentary party There was a london unit of the volunteers. Which did fight in the East rising So presuming Ulster acts and than a curragh muntiny occurs. Low odds, but possible. British have had their hand forced. That said, its still unlikely Collins, accepts a VC. However the war in the North may have changed him. In otl, he became less anti clerical as he got older. Here he may be more of a redmondite. In this time line. Redmond wins the war
.
~ One further point, Irish volunteers, were quietly buying guns from france and belgium at this point. So, if the French are pissed
~ Ulyanov and Hitler die in obscurity, Dzugashvili is captured while robbing a bank and shot...A generation of Frenchmen would have spat every time Germany was mentioned who would otherwise have pushed up poppies and the demographics and psychology of France and Britain in the 1930s and 1940s would be radically different. I've often thought that the 20th century would have been a happier place if the Miracle of the Marne, wasn't. The carnage over the century would likely have been much, much less.
~ You are up against the British Ruling Class - one of the most ruthless and skilled bunch of operators on the planet.
Carson is an important member of the Conswevative Party, and the violently anti-Home Rule Bonar law and Arthur Balfour are its leaders.
The Liberal Imperialist liberals nned them for the war and if the secret military conventios have been published likely to be in coalition with them.
Remember Redmond promised the Volunteers to defend Ireland and held a grand parade.
There is no way the Conservatives will act against Ulster neither will british officers march against it.
If B L and A B are in a Coalition in which the Liberal Imperilaiists are in a minority they will be intolerant of the Irish Volunteers and Home Rule.
~ Or, Paul, if the Archduke Ferdinand had not been assassinated at Sarajevo. That might also have prevented WWI and therefore the Russian Revolution and WWII.
~ "Ulyanov and Hitler die in obscurity, Dzugashvili is captured while robbing a bank and shot...A generation of Frenchmen would have spat every time Germany was mentioned who would otherwise have pushed up poppies and the demographics and psychology of France and Britain in the 1930s and 1940s would be radically different. I've often thought that the 20th century would have been a happier place if the Miracle of the Marne, wasn't. The carnage over the century would likely have been much, much less."
I entirely agree, Sir. Also britain would have beem a much more prosperous place and not gone into economic decline and there would have been no "lost generation".
But unfortunately Franz ferdinan's assassination was not by a small group of fantatics or an accident, as most assassinations are not, it was fixed and how far the fixing went is open to debate. How far were Russian military intelligence involved?
~ This just in: Martin McGuinness, head of Sinn Fein, is going to meet with Queen Elizabeth in Berlin, with his organization's full consent. Sometimes truth is even stranger than OUR fiction!
~ By 1914, some form of Home Rule was on the way, one way or another. If the Ulstermen had been allowed to opt out, as should have been done (what do the Republicans WANT with a million or so people that want no part of their new state, anyway?) the whole thing could have been handled, but WWI came along and that was when everybody became stupid
~ Eric, I think it has to be asked How sincere was the Liberal government? Did they intend it to become deadlockedall along? Much of the Liberal party membership believed in it, The numbers of NP's of the Liberlas and tories were identical in numbers, with the balancebeing dtermined by the Irish Nationalists and Labour. This appears to have been the reson for the disasterous decision not to exclude Ulster.
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