Todayinah Ed. says, Confederate Commander "Stonewall" Jackson immediately follows-up the victory at Bull Run by occupying the Federal Capital. If you're interested in viewing samples of my other work why not visit Todayinah site.
| July 23 |  |
Editor says, what if Confederate Commanders immediately followed-up the victory at Bull Run? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s).
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In 1861, amidst the chaotic evacuation of the US Government from Washington City on this day, US President Abraham Lincoln was shot dead by a deranged stage actor, John Wilkes Booth (pictured).
Crucifixion DayChaos had ensued the moment that defeated Union forces returned from the Battle of Bull Run. Because in the first (and last) major land battle of the American Civil War, General Irvin McDowell's Union forces had been routed at Manassas Junction.
"We have whipped them! They ran like sheep! Give me 5,000 fresh men and I will be in Washington City tomorrow!" ~ "Stonewall" JacksonWorse was to come. Fast on the heels of the defeated Union Army of Northeastern Virginia was an advance force of five thousand Confederate troops led by "Stonewall" Jackson, considered by many to be the architect of the victory at Bull Run. By mid afternoon, a battery of rifled guns had been established on Arlington Heights, and the first elements of the Army of North Virginia were crossing the Long Bridge.
It was a far cry from the high hopes of US Congressmen who had taken up the cry of: "On to Richmond!". Because the only one of them who actually made it there, Alfred Ely of New York, did so as a prisoner.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© "How the South Could Have Won the Civil War: the Fatal Errors that Led to Confederate Defeat" by Bevin Alexander (2007)Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Southern Cross Source: Amazon Labels: Abraham Lincoln, John Wilkes Booth, Stonewall Jackson, Manassas, Bull Run.
~ Where do these magic five thousand formed troops appear from? Who put Jackson in command? Longstreet did what little pursuit happened and only because his brigade was essentially unengaged. Ed. Alexander's book quotes "Large segments of [Johnsons] army were not disorganized, and they could have moved with speed"
~ A couple of things - was Booth even comtemplating such an action in 1861? I thought it wasn't until 1864 that he started hatching schemes to act against Lincoln. And who's this Bevin Alexander? Both sides, after 1st Manassas were a mess. As Scott said, Longstreet conducted a bit of a pursuit, as his brigade was about the only one capable of doing so, but he simply didn't have the numbers to be effective. Far more importantly the ACW wasn't won or lost in the East. This was achieved out west. If the Confederacy wants a chance of surviving, it can't invade Kentucky in what is arguably one of the stupidest decisions ever made in human history.
~ As I understand it, the CS Army was nearly as disordered by victory as the US Army was by defeat---I don't think that they could have pursued in any sort of orderly fashion. Even so, losing Washington would not end the CW---the main fountainheads of anti-slavery/anti-secession were in places like Boston, and, if anything, not having to endlessly defend the very exposed District of Columbia might have freed up resources to be used elsewhere.
~ Why would Booth have shot Lincoln anyway? As I understand it, Booth was supposed to have been embittered at Sothern defeat. If the Confederacy had won a quick victory, that motivation would have disappeared for him--though a bitter supporter of the Union might have assasinated Lincoln instead.
In any case, it appears that the simple picture of Booth as a lone nut isn't true. "April 1865," author Jay Winik documents that Vice-President Andrew Johnson and the the president pro tem of the Senate were also targeted that night, though unsuccessfully. The idea seems to have been a desperate last-ditch attempt to entirely behead the Union government. At that time, the chain of succession did not extend through the entire Cabinet as it does now (the current arrangement was set up in the 1960s when it was feared that a nuclear attack on Washington might wipe out the Executive Branch). That Lincoln's murder was part of a broader conspiracy was well-known at the time, though this was downplayed in later accounts. It remains unclear whether the conspiracy had the backing of the CSA government.
August 26
Editor says, what if Confederate Commanders immediately followed-up the victory at Bull Run? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s).
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In 1861, just four weeks after the chaotic evacuation from Washington City the Union mustered sufficient organisation to reseat the National Government upon the island of Manhattan which became the new Federal District under an emergency cessation by the New York State Legislature.
Crucifixion Day Part 2 by Ed, Stan Brin & Eric LippsThe Union received an immediate setback to its national authority when a few days later the District of Columbia signed an act of retrocession returning the territory to the State of Maryland.
Whilst his murdered predecessor had grappled with the retention of Federal Property in the Confederate States, for President Hannibal Hamlin the game had moved on from Fort Sumter and at a pace. Because George Washington's capital was in the hands of the Confederate troops who had crushed Union Forces at the Battle of Bull Run.
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© "How the South Could Have Won the Civil War: the Fatal Errors that Led to Confederate Defeat" by Bevin Alexander (2007)Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Southern Cross Source: Amazon Labels: Abraham Lincoln, John Wilkes Booth, Stonewall Jackson, Hannibal Hamlin, Bull Run. ~ What's retrocession? Please see the hyperlink in the post.
Comment from Joshua Town Destroyer on Facebook: The Confederate forces after Bull Run didn't have the organization to push for Washington. In fact, it would've stupid, and suicide.
Comment from Mike McIlvain on Facebook: I think you are right, but, what if? Interesting question. I have always had the impression that there might have been a cast-war sometime after if the south had won. I have understood that there was a lot of resentment toward the wealthy from the poor then. The wealthy, if they owned 20 or more slaves, did not have to fight, I have read and seen on the History Channel. But the poor sharecropper had to endure battle, and hope to survive.
Comment from Joshua Town Destroyer on Facebook "The Best Lies have a bit of truth in them." Having the Confederates capture Washington after Bull Run is exceedingly easy as long as you have the right POD, and I was just pointing out that this one would be inadequate and thus those who are annoyingly knowledgeable on the subject will be turned off by the image of a small, unorganized rag-tag ... See Moregroup of soldiers somehow taking a city garrisoned with multiple troops.
That said, I would like to see a What If? one of these days where Lincoln decides against the Fort Sumter thing, and let's the Confederacy go, thus keeping Virginia, North Carolina, Arkansas, and Tennessee in the Union in the process.
Comment from Mike McIlvain on Facebook: I would like to see that one, too.
~ Lincoln becomes a martyer to the national union, and; north mobilizes great forces that ultimately recover the place. It is for the north to win, they have the industry with which to produce the weapons, they have the manpower, they have the infrastructure and railroads. All they need is the general with the guts and brains to lead the north's forces since all the generals had previously come from the South compliments of Slave power controled Democrat party politicians.
~ FWIW, George Washington may have been involved in founding the place, but his government was always at Philadelphia AFAIK.
~ Er . . . not sure what you mean about "founding the place." Washington didn't help "found" New York, but he was inaugurated there the first time around, and NYC has the advantage over Philadelphia in that it's an island and not already a state capital.
As for Albany not wanting to give up the city's tax revenues, I'd imagine some sort of political deal would have been cut to mollify it.
~ There were enough intact Confederate forces to do this if someone had been placed in charge of them. Beauregard and Johnson were as disorganized by their victory as the troops they led. Now presume Davis had sent lee up as an observer and Beauregard had given him command of the unengaged Confederate left then yes this is vaguely possible. There was essentially no one to stop such a forced march. Patterson's Army was intact up still around Harper's Ferry. However why on earth would the capital move to Manhattan? Most probable answers are Philadelphia [history and proximity] or somewhere in the Upper Midwest [Columbus, Cleveland, Chicago] as a way of holding those states in the Union. Manhattan was always regarded as somewhat weird and foreign.
August 27
Editor says, what if Confederate Commanders immediately followed-up the victory at Bull Run? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s).
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In 1861, President Hannibal Hamlin was opposed by prominent business interests when he attempted to revive the District of Columbia on Manhattan island. By the end of his second year in office, Hamlin was resident at Montauk Point, Long Island, where a Seaside White House was available to him and his family, as was a double domed capital, larger and more spacious than the one left behind in Washington D.C.
Crucifixion Day Part 3 by Raymond SpeerMeanwhile, Richmond remained the capital of the Confederacy, but that organization was disintegrating while unchallenged by the USA. Georgia and Mississippi sanctioned the disintegration of the infantry units that had been raised by those states upon the expiration of their 60 day enlistment periods. Virginia was more responsible (well aware of the
Grand Army of the Republic that the Yankees had training in Pennsylvania), but was straining its own resources by putting forth the defense for the Confederacy's eastern seaboard. And sales had not been good for Confederate bonds, though the documents were being marketed freely in Europe.
The Post-Skedaddle phase of the War Between the American States began in the Nevada territory, where a convention hall of orators in Virginia City announced that Nevada was joining the Confederacy. That was in the last week of November 1862 and a rival Union government in Carson City was established by a company of cavalry the next month. By the beginning of 1862, Nevadan settlers were fighting among themselves over which side would get the mineral wealth of the territory.
Both Jefferson Davis and Hannibal Hamlin appointed proxies in Nevada, and contacted their respective Congresses for appropriations to send an overwhelming force to conquer Nevada beyond dispute. Of necessity, each side made ready their home defense forces back east.
As those events transpired, Brigham Young in Salt Lake City organized his people, ordering a prepared defense force to resist outside domination "from either side". In London, with the advent of the Nevada Crisis, maps are consulted concerning the American southwest lands and the settlements thereon.
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Raymond Speer
© "How the South Could Have Won the Civil War: the Fatal Errors that Led to Confederate Defeat" by Bevin Alexander (2007)Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Southern Cross Source: Amazon Labels: Abraham Lincoln, John Wilkes Booth, Stonewall Jackson, Hannibal Hamlin, Bull Run. ~ Actually, the North did prevail in the Nevada area. Many volunteers came over from Californian but the local Mexican population was more sympathetic to the north with much bad experience from southerners and the North's freeing them from Peonage on the local scene. I believe the South would have been staying together a lot better than you show but the big ships of the Navy in northern hands along with its vast resources in its merchant ships which they were now arming and recruiting from for which to establish its blockade along with its naval build ups up north to push down the misssissippi would ulimately bring Northern victory.
~ The old capitol was in Washington, _DC,_ not Washington _State._ The State's clear the other side of the continent from DC. Fixed - thanks. Ed.
~ And I dson't think it was a state in 1861.
I suspect Hamlin's Seaside White House would have been only a temporary residence. Once the new capital had been formally established, there would probably have been calls for the building of a new presidential residence, if only to show the USA still had the spirit to do it.
February 27
Editor says, what if the "Year of the Domino" occurred two hundred and thirty years before the events of Howard Chaykin's ingenius comic book, American Flagg when the United States collapsed after a series of crises? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s).
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In 1864, on this day Walt Whitman (pictured as a young man) formed a Centennial Recovery Committee, promising to get America "back on track for '76". His candidacy for US President was declared in the city of Philadelphia, the poet's home for the past three years.
Crucifixion Day Part 4, A Very Different American Flagg, c1864Because Whitman had been in Washington City on that dreadful day after the defeat at Mannassas Junction. Confederate forces had seized the old Capital, and in the ensuing chaos, as the US Government fled the City, Abraham Lincoln was assassinated by the deranged stage actor John Wilkes Booth.
"The defeated [Union] troops commenced pouring over the Long Bridge at daylight, returning to Washington baffled, humiliated, panic-struck". ~ Walt WhitmanAnd so Whitman had arrived in Philadelphia, the new capital of the Union.
Very shortly, campaign posters would start to appear, making the bold announcement that "Somebody's go to put it all back together ... Walt Whitman just might be the man".
Entry posted by Todayinah Editor
© "American Flagg", Howard Chaykin, 1983. Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Southern Cross Source: Wikipedia Labels: Walt Whitman, America, Confederacy, Civil War, 1860s. Editor says, Toonpedia says ~ according to the series back-story, in 1996 (13 years after the comic originally appeared), everything collapsed. Nukes were flying not just in the Middle East, but also in Western Europe. Black plague in Asia and food riots in Europe. Banking system melts down, just like many nuclear power plants. Islamic uprisings in places where you wouldn't even think there was Islam. So the U.S. government, along with the executive boards of most major corporations, moves to Mars. The Plex has formed the Tricentennial Recovery Committee, to get America "back on track for '76", but the TRC is in reality a plan to sell the United States off to the new superpowers and to leech off the remaining inhabitants before gaining true self-sufficiency. Somebody's gotta put it all back together ... Reuben Flagg just might be the man.
~ And what happens to the Confederate forces in Washington DC when the Union army surrounds the place? ;)
~ The post doesnt preclude the Union eventually defeated the Confederacy, or indeed rebuilding Washington later on, the point is that the country is in a worse mess in this ATL and Whitman emerges as the Lincoln proxy. Robbie Taylor has a thread on this site where WW becomes President, hence this cross over.
~ Fair enough, but the problem, for this to work, is that Joe Johnston & Beauregard would know taking Washington would be a major mistake which would only invite defeat. So you're going to have to remove them as commanders & put some idiot in charge. Well good luck there. Certainly Jackson wouldn't do it, as he is a battle of manoeuvrer general (ie keep away from attacking cities & prepared fortifications), whilst Longstreet is a positional general where he wants the enemy to attack his fortifications. AS Johnson, meanwhile, is stuck out west thanks to the idiotic invasion of Kentucky. So that doesn't leave many others save for Lee & Magruder. Well Lee will be like Jonhston & Beauregard, & want to avoid Washington, whilst Magruder simply wouldn't have the confidence of Davis not to mention I'd doubt he'd be senior enough.
~ Union Army were 90 troops. Win or lose they go home after Bull Run. In reverse with the Confederates in DC and Baltimore Maryland joins the Confederacy. Problem is finding foremd Confederate brigades to make the advance with. Victory tended to disorganize and immobilize a USCW army worse than defeat did. Policing up the battlefield, seeing to the wounded, getting the troops all back to their units etc. all took time and command energy. There are VERY few successful pursuiits in the USCW - Lee after Second Manassas, Grant after Lee evacuates Petersburg-Richmond, Thomas after Nashville.
~ I believe that even that far back, Whitman's reputation was shady enough that his chances of the Presidency would be nil no matter what. Horace Greeley, OTOH...he might just have pulled it off, silly-looking clothes and beard or no.
October 20
Editor says, what if Confederate Commanders immediately followed-up the victory at Bull Run? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s).
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In 1863, the Army of the San Joaquin (commanded by Union General Winfield Scott Hancock) clashed with the Army of West Texas (commanded by Confederate General Lew Armistead) on the first day of the two day battle of Sparks, Nevada.
Crucifixion Day Part 5 by Raymond SpeerHancock had 50,000 men in his Army, and Armistead had 40,000 effectives in his Army. Hancock had the advantage of a railroad line that weaved from Sacramento, California, to the Nevada border, while it is possible that Armistead had more support from the locals. Both armies had moved slowly into positions and they finally clashed that Tuesday.
The historical consensus is that the Blue line repelled the Gray forces twice before the first noon, but then the Union was hit savagely by the Confederate States Camel Corps. lead into action close to the first day's sunset by General JEB Stuart, who was attired in the gowns and robes of an Arab warrior. Rather than shouting Muslim religious slogans, the Southern camel riders charged into battle with the Rebel Yell echoing off desert hills.
The morning of the following days, Hancock and his men retreated to their sanctuary in California. Zoos, circuses and menagaries in the South proudly displayed camels to the prideful Southrons, reminding them that the ships of the desert had been introduced to the Americas by none other than Jeff Davis while he served as Franklin Pierce's Secretary of War.
Entry posted by
Raymond Speer
© "How the South Could Have Won the Civil War: the Fatal Errors that Led to Confederate Defeat" by Bevin Alexander (2007)Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Southern Cross Source: Amazon Labels: Abraham Lincoln, Lew Armistead, Stonewall Jackson, Hannibal Hamlin, General Winfield Scott Hancock. ~ Confederates could not have supplied 4K men on a march from Texas to Nevada much less 40K. Similarly absent the transcontinental RR Union could have have supported 50K sent from the rest of the US and there were not 50K to raise on the Pac Coast. Mountain West battles of this size need a diffferent railroad history of the US. Essentially the Union Pacific and South pacific RR lines have to be built in the 1850's which needs a whole bunch of other twists and turns starting with the Nevada and Arizona silver production coming on stream early in that decade.
~ I don't think either side would have had anything like that many guys in-theater. In OTL the Far West was even more of a sideshow than the Trans-Mississippi Theater.
~ Camels? Why not Centuars. Just as realistic.
~ I'm almost afraid to read the next chapter.... <:0
~ The camel corps was a failure when it was tried before the war, another one of Jefferson Davis's bad ideas. Overal the Texas forces were killed by the elements, the long lines of supply and very few supplies getting to them while the population was far from friendly in their greetings. That and they just did not have the numbers or weapons.
December 25
Editor says, what if Confederate Commanders immediately followed-up the victory at Bull Run? Please note that the opinions expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of the author(s).
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In 1863, President Hannibal Hamlin confirmed the Declaration of Emancipation that General John C. Fremont had proclaimed in Tennessee when he had occupied that State earlier in the year.
Crucifixion Day Part 6 by Raymond SpeerFrom the start of the war, which Fremont spent stationed in Missouri, that general had realized that the institution of slavery was the motivation of secession and the engine that worked the economy of the South. Accordingly, Fremont had abolished slavery In Missouri.
Hannibal Hamlin, a convinced Abolitionist from childhood and the possessoor of a dark complexion that gossips attributed to some Negro ancestors, had been told by his Attorney General that Fremont's liberation policy would alienate the border states and drive them all into the Confederacy.
"If our loss of the capitol city has not doomed us," Hamlin told his advisor, "I doubt that adding Missouri to the free states will substantially worsen our condition". The Attorney General, an appointee of the dead Lincoln, resigned and Fremont's move was approved.
In the summer of 1863, Fremont lead the Army of Missouri east and conquered Kentucky and Tennessee that season. In keeping with his program in Missouri, Fremont refused to let slavery continue in areas controlled by the Union, and Fremont's action roused discontent at Montauk Point, Long Island, New York, where the US Congress met by right in December 1863. A resolution that criticized Fremont was voted down in each House, and a counterdraft (praising the move) was passed through the support of President Hamlin.
The buildings at Montauk Point were raw and crude owing to their hurried construction. With no attendents from the Cotton South or Border States among the members of that Congress, a bill to relocate the capitol from Washington DC to Montauk was passed by both Houses, and money was appropriated for more buildings.
Thaddeus Stevens, the Speaker of the House, met with the President on a yacht offshore Nantucket Island when Hamlin signed the decree that approved Fremont's second emanicipation program. "Mr. Speaker, when Congress is as far sighted as General Fremont, it will pass laws that will tear the guts out of the Confederacy".
Entry posted by
Raymond Speer
© "How the South Could Have Won the Civil War: the Fatal Errors that Led to Confederate Defeat" by Bevin Alexander (2007)Story Tags
Permalinks: Post, Day. Browse Thread: Southern Cross Source: Amazon Labels: Abraham Lincoln, Lew Armistead, Stonewall Jackson, Hannibal Hamlin, General Winfield Scott Hancock. Editor says, The problem wiith critics of the scenario for Part 5 is that they insist on the logistics restraints of a year previous when nothing had been pre-arranged. The overriding realty of the situation was that the abandonment of the Federal capitol by troops with a lack of organization has been a "breather" for both sides which permitted a complete revisal of offensive and defensive patterns, In this installment, the Grand Army of the Republic is gigantic, tuned to an offensive invulnerability by George McClellan, who has reclaimed Washington DC from the Rebels. And the complaints against that will be from people upset that a year's hiatus in the War made any changes at all to the Union Table of Organization.
~ Emancipating Missouri's slaves would have driven most of Missouri straight into the Confederate camp, which the Union did NOT need.
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